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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (42484)	1/21/2002 5:59:07 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"Did a sharp-tongued pipsqueak from Missouri overrule all of them- -right after he took office and in the face the opposition of the likes of General Eisenhower?" Well, he was that: but also a brave, loyal, and pig headed man. Friggin committees are a powerful weapon in the hands of crafty and competent leaders...<gg> The Target Comittee was formed in the spring of 45. By May they had identified the targets (originally 17) which were to be preserved from firebombing so as to create a pyscholgical showcase for the use of the bombs. As the months went by, all but four of those targets were firebombed, as the commanders had run out of other targets to train their B-29s on. Also, an "Interim Committee" was formed to meet the approval of the President. The committee was to deal with publicity and the recommendations to the legislative and executive branches. Stimson writes that: "I said I should prefer to have such a representative and suggested that he should be a man (a) with whom the President had close personal relations, and (b) who was able to keep his mouth shut. The President took our list and said that he would try to think up such a man as I suggested "He had already called Byrnes up down in South Carolina by telephone and Byrnes had accepted. So my [Interim] committee is now complete. Bundy and Harrison were tickled to death with this Byrnes suggestion and now we can start at work on preparing for the many things that must be planned for S-1."" It must be noted that the minutes of the committee meetings do not reflect them discussing whether or not the atomic bombing should take place; nor did issues of diplomacy or current events material to such a decision appear to have been addressed. Clearly, the decision had long since been made. I do not see any discussion of the question of actually bombing Japan with the bomb. It seems to have been intended as a message to both Japan and Russia. One wonders if even a Japanese unconditional surrender could have prevented such an intention. The second bombing on Nagasaki would indicate that the Russian declaration of war had created some "urgency" in the entire staking of post war positioning... I really don't know what you mean by a "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy." Nor do I think America was so divided by Democrat versus Republican. They were agonizing through this insane war. They wanted victory and they wanted revenge: the very things that all people have wanted against enemies who have caused relentless pain and suffering. In mid July Byrnes (now Secretary of State) convinces Truman to drop Article 12 of the Potsdam Proclamation. It is clear that Truman wanted the "Japs" to surrender before Russia came in...for obvious reasons. To this end, he authorized the use of the bombs on July 21. By July 24th he had ordered Stimson to carry out the procedure. On July 25 General Handy gave a written memo to General Spaatz to drop the bombs and to await further targets, as well: "3. Dissemination of any and all information concerning the use of the weapon against Japan is reserved to the Secretary of War and the President of the United States". As more surrrender overtures are intercepted it becomes clear that Japan may sue for peace through Russia which would give Russia power, credibility, and influence. Truman acts quickly to forestall such an eventuality. Three days later he blows up Hiroshima. Russia, perceiving that Truman has tricked them and is cutting them out of the land grabing, quickly declare war a week in advance of their stated intention. Almost immediately, Truman blows up Nagasaki as a message to the Russians that their troop advantages have been neutralized and trumped, and that they have a royal flush, and are not at all afraid to call the cards on any hand dealt. ___________________________ July 1, in 1946, the extensive post mortum Strategic Bombing Survey states that: "“The Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs did not defeat Japan, nor by the testimony of the enemy leaders who ended the war did they persuade Japan to accept unconditional surrender. The Emperor, the lord privy seal, the prime minister, the foreign minister and the navy minister had decided as early as May of 1945 that the war should be ended even it meant acceptance of defeat on allied terms.” The Survey also states: “On 10 July [1945] the Emperor again urged haste in the moves to mediate through Russia, but Potsdam intervened. While the government still awaited a Russian answer, the Hiroshima bomb was dropped on 6 August.” The Survey concluded: “Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.” About as gentle as an American loyalist could possibly phrase it... How did this happen, Lazarus?? It is hard to dot all the I's and cros the T's. But where there is a will, there is a way...