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Non-Tech : The Enron Scandal - Unmoderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (736)	1/26/2002 11:06:00 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 3602

Michael, I don't want to refight the Gilder wars with you here. Suffice it to say, Gilder is a trained economist who has assiduously avoided every economic concept and every financial analysis in his newsletter in order to avoid SEC scrutiny. He's a schemer of the highest order. There's something that is desperately missing from your statement about Gilder's vision of bandwidth plenty. That is economics. The one thing that Gilder was trained in, he avoids discussing like a plague. There's a damn good reason for it. The race to provide bandwidth has created one of the greatest destructions of capital that the world has ever seen. What have we accomplished, exactly? We have a medium, the Internet that derives over a third of its revenues from pornography. One of the most touted growing sectors we find today is online gambling. The most spectaclur bankruptcy in the nation's history is directly tied to the online speculation in energy and other markets by a company that is nicknamed End Run. Perhaps you are aware, or maybe not, that Enron was a key player in the "bandwidth" marketplace. I was shocked to learn last April that of all the trades that had been made for bandwidth between ENE, WCG and the other gunslingers in the previous 18 months that not ONE, repeat, not ONE contract for bandwidth to be delivered as a contract had actually gotten to the delivery stage. In other words, the derivatives market that EnronOnline, Williams and others had created was an utter sham and a complete hoax. There was no there, there. And this is the brave new world that George Gilder hopes to sell to the unwary. Sorry, this isn't a reality we need. Time to get real. And Gilder isn't part of reality. He's part of some pied piper sideshow dream that appeals to folks who may test well, but actually haven't a clue. -Ray

To: greenspirit who wrote (736)	1/27/2002 4:26:29 PM
From: KLP	Respond to of 3602

Some interesting figures re taxes...from the IRS numbers...and via the WSJ...Who's Paying the Taxes?? Notes from the Wall Street Journal Editorial, page A20, Tuesday, Jan 23,2002. Don't have a link, so this is typed from the actual paper. Re Rich Tax Debate: IRS 1999 figures: Anyone have access to WSJ OnLine for Jan 23, 2002....???? Notes: Source: IRS Percentiles: Ranked in adjusted gross income (AGI) Who's Paying Taxes in 1999 (latest figures available) Listed in this manner: Percentiles/Total Share AGI/$% of Fed Personal Income Tax Top 1%/19.5%/36.2% Top 5%/34.0%/55.5% Top 10%/44.9%/66.5% Top 25%/66.5%/83.5% Top 50%/86.8%/96.0% Bottom 50%/13.2%/4.0% What is meant by Wealthy? IRS Numbers 1999: "Needed to earn to be among the TOP 25% of all tax filers was a whopping : $52,965. And for that, your reward as an income class for working that hard was to pay 83.5% of ALL taxes. To be among the TOP 50%, you had to earn only $26,415. The 27% marginal tax rate kicks in for single taxpayers at only $27,050 of income. Quote, WSJ: "Kennedy liberals prefer to ignore this truth about income mobility because it means their main political claim is false. They want voters to believe that the only people being taxed at these rates are the Trumps and Rockefellers. But what really happens is that the higher rates end up soaking essentially middle class people whose incomes rise during their careers until they end up paying the same tax rate as the Kennedy, though they still can't afford to said off Cape Cod. Mr Kennedy knows what he's doing, of course. By calling for a tax hike, he hopes to shift the national debate to the left, and make it that much harder to cut taxes any further. Which is all the more reason for tax cutters to point out how much the government soaks both rich and middle class alike." UnQuote.