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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (17400)	1/28/2002 12:54:30 AM
From: Nikole Wollerstein	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

""Its existence, worse, its success, puts them to shame."" As one Sabra told me few years ago: "Before mass immigration of Jews to Israel local Arabs lived like Rats in the holes in the ground"

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (17400)	1/28/2002 1:11:49 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Oh, for heaven's sake, I certainly am not arguing that there is a moral equivalence between a terrorist who deliberately kills civilians, and a soldier who tries to avoid killing civilians. But we all know that in wars, civilians get killed. If, after World War II, the nations who were part of the UN, instead of voting to partition Palestine as a solution to the problem of all the Jews who were fleeing from Europe, voted to let them come to their countries as immigrants, no civilians would be accidentally killed by Israeli "warriors", because there would be no Israel. No war, no dead civilians. Or maybe there would have been, but it would have happened differently. Certainly over the Arabs dead bodies. I understand the impetus behind the desire for a Jewish homeland. It was an impossible dream of idealists until it was supported by Britain, an imperialist nation, which had little qualms about the use of force to achieve political goals, especially when the people on the other side were Wogs, and other people with brown skin. An unpleasant fact, but the truth. Did the Zionists have powerful friends in 1947/48? America, for one. us-israel.org The Soviet Union, for another. us-israel.org Sorry for twisting your words about Tibet. I do think that Tibet gets plenty of press, but it's not a hot button here in the US, not like Israel.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (17400)	1/28/2002 2:10:58 AM
From: Math Junkie	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I'm thoroughly enjoying the high quality of these discussions. The historical discussions, in particular, are very interesting, and very illuminating. However, I don't think right and wrong for today can be discerned from what one side's parents or grandparents did to the other side's parents or grandparents. U.S. policy in the Middle East going forward should be based on whether the goals of the participants are something we can support. What do the Palestinians want, really? What do the Israelis want, really? It seems to me that these are the questions that need to be answered. Some people seem to want to put things back the way they were before some war or another. That does not represent any kind of moral high ground, because there is no objective way to say at what point in history things were set up the "right" way. We want to try to avoid any more genocides, mass starvations, or refugee crises. Those should be the guiding principles.