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To: Thomas M. who wrote (11404)	2/9/2002 3:37:30 PM
From: goldsnow	Respond to of 23908

o'key lets dissect your post..for fun palestineremembered.com Moshe Sharett, the first Israeli foreign minister, wrote in 1914: We have forgotten that we have not come to an empty land to inherit it, but we have come to conquer a country from people inhabiting it, that governs it by the virtue of its language and savage culture ..... Recently there has been appearing in our newspapers the clarification about "the mutual misunderstanding" between us and the Arabs, about "common interests" [and] about "the possibility of unity and peace between two fraternal peoples." ..... [But] we must not allow ourselves to be deluded by such illusive hopes ..... for if we ceases to look upon our land, the Land of Israel, as ours alone and we allow a partner into our estate- all content and meaning will be lost to our enterprise. (Righteous Victims, p. 91) Quotes/Story694.html So did you read Ben Morris book? Did you read context of Moshe Sharett, comment? Or you just decided that it applied to transfer of Arabs from Transjordan to Iraq on your own? amazon.com Amazon.com Making sense of any particular episode in the long and convoluted conflict between Arabs and Israelis can seem a Sisyphean task--engineering peace in the Middle East has become nearly clichéd in its complexity, with each individual dispute traceable back to years of anger, mistrust, and... Read more

To: Thomas M. who wrote (11404)	2/9/2002 3:47:34 PM
From: goldsnow	Respond to of 23908

What quote sez about Trasjordan?, about Iraq? truth-you have not read Ben Morris book or any other that "quotes" Zionists, there is not even a mention of Transjordan or Iraq, is it? Famous Ethnic Cleansing Quotes 1.David Ben-Gurion (all from 1937) 2.Moshe Sharett 3.Yosef Weitz, the architect of the "transfer" theory (37-48 4. Cleansing Lydda & Ramla (1948) 5.Menachem Ussishkin In 1904, before Zionism matured into a powerful political force, Menachem Ussishkin stated that: "[Land is acquired] by force --- that is, by conquest in war, or in other words, by ROBBING land form its owner; . . . by expropriation via government authority; or by purchase. . . [The Zionist movement was limited to the third choice] until at some point we become rulers." (Righteous Victims, p. 38) Opinion on opinion? 6.Moshe Dayan (1967) 7. Arthur Ruppin Customers who shopped for this item also shopped for these items: Fateful Triangle by Noam Chomsky, Edward W. Said (Foreword) The Invention of Ancient Israel by Keith W. Whitelam Divided Against Zion by Rory Miller Syrian Intervention in Lebanon by Naomi Joy Weinberger 8. Shmuel Zuchovitzky (1938) 9. Transfer Committee (1948) 10. Miscellanies palestineremembered.com

To: Thomas M. who wrote (11404)	2/9/2002 4:05:46 PM
From: goldsnow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Benny Morris teaches history at Ben-Gurion University, Beersheba, Israel. His most recent book is Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-1999 (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1999). Ze'ev Jabotinsky, the founder and leader of right-wing Revisionist Zionism, back in the 1920s wrote that, given Arab numbers, antagonism, and resistance, a Jewish state only could arise in Palestine behind an "iron wall," meaning a protective carapace of very sharp bayonets, either British or, preferably, Jewish. Only a powerful army could assure the emergence and continued existence of such a polity, until such time as the Arabs—in Palestine and around it—were persuaded that the Jewish state or its "iron wall" were too powerful to vanquish. Then, and only then, would they sit down and talk peace with the Israelis. Shlaim seems to suggest that the hard-liners, like David Ben-Gurion, shared Jabotinsky's iron wall postulate while the moderates, like Moshe Sharett or Levi Eshkol, respectively Israel's second and third prime ministers, did not. Be that as it may, Shlaim, one of the leading "revisionist" (or "new") historians examining Israeli, Zionist, and Middle Eastern history, agrees with the core of Jabotinsky's analysis: Israel could not have arisen or continued to exist or, indeed, extracted (a grudging) peace from its neighbors without the services of that iron wall. Yet Shlaim's heart, clearly, is not with that philosophy's tough-minded, occasionally ruthless practitioners, Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir, Moshe Dayan, and, yes, Yitzhak Rabin. Rather, in the course of this highly readable, thoroughly researched book, he time and again suggests that he prefers by far the more humane and moral visage and praxis of Sharett, Israel's first foreign minister (1948-56) and second prime minister (December 1953-55), who always but unsuccessfully was trying to rope the Arabs into negotiations and trying but failing to solve Israeli-Arab problems through diplomacy. ipsjps.org

To: Thomas M. who wrote (11404)	2/9/2002 6:30:14 PM
From: goldsnow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

On Sharett Moshe Sharett (Shertok), Ukrainian born, was the director of the Jewish Agency's Political Department from 1933 until May 1948 (when the State of Israel was founded), His policies with Israel's neighbors were characterized with vision and pragmatism, which in a way now makes most of the current Israeli "peace camp" looks like hawks. Although Sharett was an ARDENT Zionist who was committed to the "transfer solution" to the "Arab question," (especially by being the main Israeli Cabinet patron of the "Transfer Committee"), he attempted to have policies based on engagement rather than belligerence and humiliation of Israel's Arab neighbors. palestineremembered.com For the next 10 years the possibility of transferring the Arab population would not be 'practical'. As for the long-term future: I am prepared to see in this a vision, not a mystical way but in a realistic way, of a population exchange on a much more important scale and including larger territories. As for now, we must not forget who would have to exchange the land? those villages which live more than others on irrigation, on orange and fruit plantations, in houses built near water wells and pumping stations, on livestock and property and easy access to markets. Where would they go? What would they receive in return? ... This would be such an uprooting, such a shock, the likes of which had never occurred and could drown the whole thing in rivers of blood. At this stage let us not entertain ourselves with the analogy of population transfer between Turkey and Greece; there were different conditions there.

To: Thomas M. who wrote (11404)	2/9/2002 6:35:07 PM
From: goldsnow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

And finally I found Transjordan palestineremembered.com On May 19, 1936, Menachem Ussishkin declared: "What we can demand today is that all Transjordan be included in the Land of Israel. . . on condition that Transjordan would be either be made available for Jewish colonization or for the resettlement of those [Palestinian] Arabs, whose lands [in Palestine] we would purchase. Against this, the most conscientious person could not argue . . . For the [Palestinian] Arabs of the Galilee, Transjordan is a province . . . this will be for the resettlement of Palestine's Arabs. This the land problem. . . . Now the [Palestinian] Arabs DO NOT WANT want us because we want to be the rulers. I will fight for this. I will make sure that we will be the landlords of this land . . . . because this country belongs to us not to them . . . " (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 51)