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Pastimes : The Boxing Ring Revived -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (2670)	2/20/2002 4:52:41 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7720

Of course my values enter in. To me, that does not mean that my analysis is not objective, since I think that values are objectively grounded. Well, I think I can objectively analyze issues, too, and I disagree with you on a number of the issues we've covered. Is there any point in debating individual issues? My thoughts on the issues, for the record: Fur: I think this is a non-issue because it's primarily private--trying to make it uncool to wear fur. It has become declasse to smoke, but discouraging smoking has expended a lot of resources and produced a lot of legislation. Where's the legislative activity regarding fur? Is the issue keeping Johnny from reading? No. I don't think vandalism is appropriate and I doubt that very any people do. But people aren't being hurt or killed, it's mostly a few coats and I think that making a big deal out of the frivolity of it is, in itself, pretty frivolous because it's such small potatoes. Hardly worth mentioning in your essay. Creationism: Creationism is ignorant. If parents want to raise their kids thinking that iron is a vegetable, we don't make accommodations for them in schools. If they want to raise their kids to think that a bunch of gods live on Mt. Olympus, we don't accommodate that either. Schools are supposed to teach the best available information. That ain't Creationism. If people can't tolerate their kids exposed to evolution, they can home school them. Ten Commandments: If people want to include them, then they should demonstrate that their inclusion contributes to order. I'm hard pressed to see how an admonition not to commit adultery would improve school discipline. But if people are so sure, then we should have a demonstration project, measure the results, and see where that takes us. To me it makes more sense to set reasonable standards directly pertinent to behavior in schools, like no cheating, lying, hitting, show up on time, etc. and give schools the wherewithall to enforce them. The Commandments issue is bogus. Faith-based initiatives: If they are demonstrated to work better than secular ones, by all means use them, as long as there are secular alternatives. Heather: I can't see putting lesbianism in the curriculum, but I think there should be a copy of the book in the library, which can be pulled out, if needed, for classes where there are kids to which it applies. Little kids can learn that some kids have a mom and a dad, some have one or neither or a grandparent as primary care-giver, and some have two mommies or two daddies if there are non-traditional familes represented in the class. If there aren't, then there's no reason to bring it up. Skokie: I think that freedom of speech is the most important freedom we have. People have to understand and appreciate that the government can't get on their case for political expression. Just like some couples renew their marriage vows after a number of years, I think that each generation or so we need a spectacular case that reinforces the right to take offensive positions. We've had flag burning and Skokie in my lifetime. I think that's a good thing. It reminds people of the meaning and importance of the right in a way that is not easily forgotten. When we start to forget, then we need another spectacular demonstration. Spotted Owls: The environmental tug of war is way to big an issue to turn into a simplistic little example in your essay. The laws are too screwed up, the parties too exercised, and the ritualized actions too remote from any real purpose. It doesn't belong on your list of frivolities. Not that a lot of the actions aren't frivolous, but it's just too complicated to reduce to that. Once again, FWIW. Karen