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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (20592)3/4/2002 4:34:06 PM
From: Bilow  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Hi Nadine Carroll; Re: "Remember, the whole settlements issue is of recent date; the PLO was founded before Israel was even in the territories for the purpose of destroying Israel." You really can't expect for the Palestinians to have complained about the settlements before any existed. Instead, this is simply an indication that the land / power problem is intractable. Haven't I been saying repeatedly that it's pointless for Israel to try and trade land for peace? I think that we are in essential agreement on this.

Re: "If things were reversed, you might have a minority movement favoring terrorism among the Israelis, as the Irgun was a minority during the Mandate." As time goes on, and diplomatic options make no progress, the minority that favored guerilla war would inevitably expand. But it never needs to expand to an actual majority. No human society on this planet has ever (as far as I can tell) consisted of a majority of bloodthirsty killers (or self sacrificing heroes, depending on whose ox was gored) willing to take grave risks with their life for their country. At best, you can get around 5% to sign up for that kind of proposition. After you kill them, the remainder tend to be rather docile.

Re: "... reducing it to these terms exclusively omits all power of choice from either side. ... unlike the case of the Zionists in the Mandate, the Palestinians had real diplomatic options open to them." It's classic victim mentality to claim that only the other side has any options, and that one's own side was forced by circumstances to do exactly what they've done. But to suggest that the Palestinians have more diplomatic options open to them flies in the face of obvious facts. If Palestine is so powerful diplomatically, then how many billions of dollars to they collect in aid from the US? Where's their capital? I mean really, you've got a country that is so badly beaten that they don't have running water or electricity and you want to say that they have more diplomatic options?

Re: "He only said yes in 1993 because he was broke and friendless in Tunis." That's not much of a base to make a lasting agreement.

Re: "Arafat just reverts easily to terrorism because he's a terrorist from his youth, he's comfortable with it." Any people which is occupied will, if it appears that there is any hope of relieving the occupation, resort to guerilla war / terrorism (call it what you will, depending on whose ox was gored). During wartime, people tend to prefer pugnacious leaders, preferably with experience in war. The British people brought in Churchill for the same reason.

If Arafat had never been born, someone else would have risen to his position. If Israel kills him now, someone else will rise to his position, and that person will be just as hard on Israel. This is obvious to Israel, which is at least one reason why they don't simply assassinate him. Don't give me BS about how Israel doesn't assassinate him because of their higher morality. The Israelis already have plenty of assassinations under their belt. The only possible reason for their not assassinating Arafat is because it is more useful to not do so.

-- Carl



To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (20592)3/4/2002 9:51:12 PM
From: BigBull  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Nadine, since this was posted on FA I thought you might appreciate the irony:

Message 16938185

I still like the vise metaphor. Although there are very great similarities with the "Anaconda"strategy employed by the US during it's own civil war. Surround, isolate, cut off and squeeeeeze. Arafat too will begin to run out of money as his PA is relentlessly stripped of all the trappings of statehood. The longer they struggle the tighter the grip becomes.

cnn.com

GARDEZ, Afghanistan (CNN) -- About 2,000 troops from the U.S.-led military coalition were engaged in "close-in" combat Monday with small pockets of al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in the rugged terrain of northeastern Afghanistan as part of an offensive called Operation Anaconda, according to U.S. military officials.

------------------------- #|:o}

Now I am convinced the campaigns of Alexander have been diligently studied, and I can rest assured.