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To: Ilaine who wrote (16197)	3/5/2002 10:45:57 AM
From: TobagoJack	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Hi CB, <<Not sure whether any of your ancestors ever believed that glorious death was a worthy goal>> Last post before lights out. I am very sure that none of my direct ancestors believed death was a party. No music, no raiding, no wine, and no fun. Just death. Yuck. Chugs, Jay

To: Ilaine who wrote (16197)	3/5/2002 10:51:53 AM
From: AC Flyer	Respond to of 74559

>>However, the drive to glorious death is either built into some or maybe there is a strong meme that drives some.<< I vote for meme. Apparently, these (male only I suppose) Muslim martyrs believe - literally believe - that there are 400 virgins waiting for them in paradise. An infant human mind can be bent to almost any purpose.

To: Ilaine who wrote (16197)	3/5/2002 10:56:52 AM
From: smolejv@gmx.net	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

>>lots of people in the Middle East believe in glorious death<< There's a lot of people (elsewhere) who believe that the other side of the fence they'll end up in (hopefully) paradise or in hell. If you get them in a psychotic, sick, inhumane condition (isolation, preparation, ego build up, a fair share of paranoia etc etc) they'll be ready to cross over - see Rev Jones for instance. The glorious death above, according to what I could read about it, means in the majority of cases the way right into paradise. Just ... shatter the mirror and you'll be there. So you're into bees?! Welcome - I have two or three (have to check) hives of Apis Carniolica. Feeding on needle trees, partly orchards and mountain grassland. dj