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To: E who wrote (1591)	3/6/2002 7:31:28 PM
From: maried.	Respond to of 21057

Good for her! (That must be some shawl! I'm impressed with her ability to get away and your weaving ability!)

To: E who wrote (1591)	3/6/2002 8:00:36 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 21057

he grabbed a prized handwoven (by me) shawl of hers and threatened to roast it in the oven if she wouldn't have sex with him. (She did manage to get away with the scarf and her dog.) Just GOTTA ask. Just GOTTA. Suppose it hadn't worked out and she had had sex. Would it be rape? Any lawyers in the house?

To: E who wrote (1591)	3/7/2002 9:32:44 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 21057

I am sorry to hear that such a thing happened to your friend. Since alcohol is a commonplace element of seduction, I am not clear why you "except" it. The fact is that a woman need not have struggled or even voiced a protest, and that she may have compromised herself markedly, by taking off her clothes and getting into bed with the fellow; that she may have been involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with her alleged attacker; and that they might continue the relationship after the incident--- indeed, in the classic study, most of the "victims" did not regard themselves as having been raped, and almost half continued a sexual relationship with their supposed attackers---- and the fellow might still be considered a rapist, at least by the researchers. If the girl were drunk, if the fellow were sexually aggressive, if she did not voice explicit consent, if she expressed ambivalence, regret, or confusion over the episode, she would become part of the 1/4 who had been raped. This signals, to me, a confusion between rape and seduction......