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To: Lane3 who wrote (1595)	3/6/2002 8:13:10 PM
From: maried.	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 21057

Interesting comments. Was your friend 14? 12? 10? when that happened? How can we discuss the inappropriateness of sexual contact between an adult and a child...male on male, male on female, or female on male, with numbers and sexual orientation and dismiss these boys as if they have been initiated into sex and not violated? Because they all seemed to think of those experiences among the highlights of their lives does that make it less of an abuse situation? I would have been appalled if one of my sons had sex with a girl when he was 12...I would have shot a woman who had sex with my son when he was twelve. I struggle to view them as victims of sexual abuse although I know that they are technically so. How can we cry rape/incest/sexual abuse when it's a young girl of 12 who is sexually violated by a male...and allow the sexual abuse of young boys to be a cute initiation...a pleasant memory to share with his friends? I can understand if this were a comment from a man...I am disappointed that it came from a woman. Double standard? I think so! Marie

To: Lane3 who wrote (1595)	3/6/2002 9:32:39 PM
From: J. C. Dithers	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 21057

Karen, as to teenage boys being initiated into sex by older women, I am sure that you would draw no distinction as to the initiation being performed by older men. There are others who share your struggle to view such initiations as sexual abuse: Another article ("Boy-Lovers and their Influence on Boys," by Edward Brongersma) complains about the "bias" which labels man-boy sex as "abuse, molestation, assault, " etc. Dr. Brongersma complains that researchers are unable to remain objective about pedophilia, saying "...many people...exhibit such violently emotional hostility toward boy-lovers because they fear their own...pedophile impulses." (p. l53). Dr. Brongersma goes on to cite cases in which social workers achieved "miracles with apparently incorrigible young delinquents--not by preaching to them but by sleeping with them." He describes how these sexual relationships "did far more good than years in reformatories." (p. l6l). He advises that the loving pedophile can offer a "companionship, security and protection" which neither peers nor parents can provide (p. l62) and goes on to say that parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a thief of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home..." Another writer, David Thorstad, argues for "freedom of sexual expression for young people and children" (p. 255) and quotes a lesbian who talks of the "rich texture" of her experiences as a molested child. Writer Gerald Jones says that "same-sex intergenerational intimacy may be developmentally functional" (p. 279) and says, "Some studies have found benign or even beneficial results in boys who were at the time involved with men" (p. 280). Dr. Jones speaks approvingly of recent studies which discuss pedophilia in "value-neutral terms." (p. 280) The articles described are from the Journal of Homosexuality, 1990, on the theme of "Male Intergenerational Intimacy" JC