SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Gold/Mining/Energy : Gold Price Monitor -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: maceng2 who wrote (83149)3/10/2002 5:25:46 PM
From: Zardoz  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 117016
 
The Earth is only around 4.5 Billion years old... And has faced about 2-3 mass extinctions. The most prevalent one being when the Moon collided with the earth thus wiping out ALL life. The moon is in an orbit that will eventually force it out of earth's orbit. Our sun is only about 10 Billion years old. And the universe is around 15-17 Billion years old. BUT don't ever assume that time is linear in space. As the speed of light, which is assumed a constant, isn't; nor never has been.



To: maceng2 who wrote (83149)3/10/2002 5:26:15 PM
From: Richnorth  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 117016
 
Where in my post did I suggest that all life forces consist of only what we can see with our eyes?

Those words in italics are yours, not mine. And to jump to conclusions/confusion without subjecting your idea to suspended judgment and seeking more info/data is most unbecoming of the self-professed scientist that you say you are. You tarbrushed me without first knowing what I really believe.

What I did was to report that, in light of new findings by the rabbis and others, the accounts in the OT of the Bible are not always to be taken as literal truths but are to be scrutinized more closely, FWIW. I also pointed out certain errors.

It sounds very much like you are barking up the wrong tree, gal!



To: maceng2 who wrote (83149)3/11/2002 3:47:35 AM
From: E. Charters  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 117016
 
6 days is a stretch. I have heard 8 or nine. Others say coffee breaks count and lunch was part of the creative act of making vegetables, etc.. However long it took, it sure did not take much time in the decision making process.

We did not see the feasibility, but we could imagine.

God: I want to make a small planet, and crowd it with miniscule life forms, most of whom will just feed on each other, and live for anywhere from one billionth of the time their home has been in existence, to perhaps 1.2 times ten to the negative 19th of that same period. Most of the life forms will be pests to others and know squat. The self-aware life forms will be no less pestiferous to the others, and sometimes suicidal. The whole thing will be put into existence as an ego trip for myself, but only the crazy ones will be told about that.

Only other person in the Universe besides God: "Go ahead. But I told you about inhaling interplanetary dust. It may be a victimless crime, but in the long run it is going to hurt you." (Picks up phone -- "Yes, we are looking into alternate Universes. Yeah, the guy who runs this place is getting a little weird. We are not sure how long this place will remain stable. Have you got anything in a single galaxy universe, with no alien life forms and low mileage on star systems?)

EC<:-}



To: maceng2 who wrote (83149)4/7/2002 3:00:29 PM
From: Richnorth  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 117016
 
OT

Now that gold is likely to remain in the doldrums for at least a few days, let me take this opportunity to go OFF TOPIC.

In your post of March 10th to me, you mentioned that there is a universal belief in a Higher Power. I don't disagree. But have you ever wondered why? I presume it was just such a very natural thing to believe...........

In the excerpt below, culled off from the book, NEO-TECH, (published in 1989) the author of the book, Frank R. Wallace, summarizes Dr. Julian Jaynes' findings that offer a rather interesting "explanation" why so many people readily believe in external "authorities" or a Higher Power. To appreciate where Dr. Jaynes is coming from, it is necessary to peruse the entire excerpt. It is somewhat long and stodgy in parts. But I believe it will be worthwhile.......

Defining and Understanding Consciousness

Julian Jaynes defines both what consciousness is and what it is not. After speculating on its location, he demonstrates that consciousness itself has no physical location, but rather is a particular organization of the mind and a specific way of using the brain. Jaynes then demonstrates that consciousness is only a small part of mental activity and is not necessary for concept formation, learning, thinking, or even reasoning. He illustrates how all those mental functions can be performed automatically and unconsciously. Furthermore, consciousness does not contribute to and often hinders the execution of learned skills such as speaking, listening, writing, reading -as well as skills involving music, art, and athletics. Thus, if major human actions and skills can function automatically and without consciousness, those same actions and skills can be controlled or driven by external influences, "authorities", or "voices" emanating under conditions described later in this Neo- Tech III. .. .But first an understanding of consciousness is important:

Consciousness requires metaphors (i.e., referring to one thing in order to better understand or describe another thing - such as the head of an army, table, page, household, nail). Consciousness also requires analog models, (i.e., thinking of a map of California in order to visualize the entire, physical state of California). Thinking in metaphors and analog models creates the mind space and mental flexibility needed to bypass those automatic, bicameral processes.

The bicameral thinking process functions only in concrete terms and narrow, here-and-now specifics. But the conscious thinking process generates an infinite array of subjective perceptions that permit ever broader understanding and better decisions.

Metaphors of "me" and analog models of "I" allow conscious-ness to function through introspection and self-visualization. In turn, consciousness expands by creating more and more metaphors and analog models. That expanding consciousness allows a person to "see" and understand the relationship between himself and the world with increasing accuracy and clarity.

Consciousness is a conceptual, metaphor-generated analog world that parallels the actual world. Man, therefore, could not invent consciousness until he developed a language sophisticated enough to produce metaphors and analog models.

The genus Homo began about two million years ago. Rudimentary oral languages developed from 70,000 B.C. to about 8000 B.C. Written languages began about 3000 B.C. and gradually developed into syntactical structures capable of generating metaphors and analog models. Only at that point could man invent and experience consciousness.

Jaynes shows that man's early writings (hieroglyphics, hieratic, and cuneiform) reflect a mentality totally different from our own. They reflect a nonmetaphoric, unconscious mentality. Jaynes also shows that the Iliad, which evolved as a sung poem about 1000 B.C., contains little if any conscious thought. The characters in the Iliad (e.g., Achilles, Agamemnon, Hector, Helen) act unconsciously in initiating all their major actions and decisions through "voices", and all speak in hexameter rhythms (as often do modern day schizophrenics when hallucinating). Hexameter rhythms are characteristic of the rhythmically automatic functionings of the right-hemisphere brain Moreover, the Iliad is entirely about action... about the acts and consequences of Achilles. The Iliad never mentions subjective thoughts or the contents of anyone's mind. The language is unconscious --- an objective reporting of facts that are concrete bound and void of introspection and abstract thought.

With a conscious mind, man can introspect; he can debate with himself; he can become his own god, voice, and decision maker. But before the invention of consciousness, the mind functioned bicamerally: the right hemisphere (the poetic, god-brain) hallucinated audio instructions to the left hemisphere (the analytical, man-brain), especially in unusual or stressful situations. Essentially, man's brain today is physically identical to the ancient bicameral brain; but with his invention of consciousness, he can now choose to integrate the functions of the left and right hemispheres.

Beginning about 9000 B.C. --- as oral languages developed --- routine or habitual tasks became increasingly standardized. The hallucinating voices for performing those basic tasks, therefore, became increasingly similar among groups of people. The collectivization of "voices" allowed more and more people to cooperate and function together through their bicameral minds. The leaders spoke to the "gods" and used the "voices" to lead the masses in cooperative unison. And that cooperation allowed nomadic hunting tribes to gradually organize into stationary, food-producing societies. The continuing development of oral language and the increasing collectivization of bicameral minds allowed towns and eventually cities to form and flourish.

The bicameral mind, however, became increasingly inadequate for guiding human actions as societies continued to grow in size and complexity. By about 1000 B.C., the bicameral mind had become so inadequate that man's social structures began collapsing. Under threat of extinction, man invented a new way to use his brain that allowed him to solve the much more complex problems needed to survive - he invented a new organization of the mind called consciousness.

Jaynes eliminated the missing link in the evolution of man by discovering that consciousness never existed in the evolutionary processes --- consciousness was invented by man.

The Development of Consciousness

Dr. Jaynes shows through abundant archaeological, historical, and biological evidence that the towns, cities, and societies from 9000 B.C. to 1000 B.C. were established and developed by unconscious people. Those societies formed and grew through common hallucinating voices attributed to gods, rulers, and the dead - to external "authorities". Various external symbols that "spoke" (such as graves, idols, and statues) helped to reinforce and expand the authority of those common "voices". And those "voices" continued to expand their reach through increasingly visible and awe-inspiring symbols such as tombs, temples, colossuses, and pyramids.

But as those unconscious societies became more complex and increasingly intermingled through trade and wars, the "voices" became mixed and contradictory. With the "voices" becoming muddled, their effectiveness in guiding people diminished. Rituals and importunings became ever more intense and elaborate in attempts to evoke clearer "voices" and better guidance. The development of writing and the permanent recording of instructions and laws during the second millennium B.C. further weakened the authority and effectiveness of hallucinated voices. As the "voices" lost their effectiveness, they began falling silent. And without authoritarian "voices" to guide and control its people, those societies suddenly began collapsing with no external cause.

As the bicameral mind broke down and societies collapsed, individuals one by one began inventing consciousness to make decisions needed to survive in the mounting anarchy and chaos. On making conscious and volitional decisions, man for the first time became responsible for his actions. Also, for short-range advantages and easy power, conscious man began discovering and using deceit and treachery --- behaviors not possible from unconscious, bicameral minds. (Before inventing consciousness, man was as guiltless and amoral as any other animal since he had no volitional choice in following his automatic guidance system of hallucinated voices.)

As the "voices" fell silent, man began contriving religions and prayers in his attempts to communicate with the departed gods. Jaynes shows how man developed the concept of worship, heaven, angels, demons, exorcism, sacrifice, divination, omens, sortilege, augury in his attempts to evoke guidance from the gods --- from external "authorities".

All such quests for external "authority" hark back to the breakdown of the hallucinating bicameral mind --- to the silencing and celestialization of the once "vocal" and earthly gods.

Much direct evidence for the breakdown of the bicameral mind and the development of consciousness comes from writings scribed between 1300 B.C. and 300 B.C. Those writings gradually shift from unconscious, objective reports to conscious, subjective expressions that reflect introspection. The jump from the unconscious writing of the Iliad to the conscious writing of the Odyssey (composed perhaps a century later) is dramatically obvious. That radical difference between the Iliad and the Odyssey is, incidentally, further evidence that more than one poet composed the Homeric epics.

The transition from the unconscious Iliad to the conscious Odyssey marks man's break with his 8000-year-old hallucinatory guidance system. By the sixth century B.C., written languages began reflecting conscious ideas of morality and justice similar to those reflected today.

The Old Testament of the Bible also illustrates the transition from the unconscious writing of its earlier books (such as Amos, circa 750 B.C.) to the fully conscious writing of its later books (such as Ecclesiastes, circa 350 B.C.). Amid that transition, the book of Samuel records the first known suicide - an act that requires consciousness. And the book of Deuteronomy illustrates the conflict between the bicameral mind and the conscious mind.

Likewise, the transition to consciousness is observed in other parts of the world: Chinese literature moved from bicameral unconsciousness to subjective consciousness about 500 B.C. with the writings of Confucius. And in India, literature shifted to subjective consciousness around 400 B.C. with the Upanishadic writings.

American Indians, however, never developed the sophisticated, metaphorical languages needed to develop full consciousness. As a result, their mentalities were probably bicameral when they first encountered the European explorers. For example, with little or no conscious resistance, the Incas allowed the Spanish "white gods" to dominate, plunder, and slaughter them.

The Bicameral Mind in Today's World

Dr. Jaynes identifies many vestiges of the bicameral mentality that exist today. The most obvious vestige is religion and its symbols. Ironically, early Christianity with its teachings of Jesus was an attempt to shift religion from the outmoded bicameral and celestial mind of Moses to the newly conscious and earthly mind of man. Christianity then discovered a devastatingly effective tool for authoritarian control - guilt. Indeed, guilt not only worked on conscious minds, but required conscious minds to be effective.

Despite religion, conscious minds caused the gradual shifts from governments of gods to governments of men and from divine laws to secular laws. Still, the vestiges of the bicameral mind combined with man's longing for guidance produced churches, prophets, oracles, sibyls, diviners, cults, mediums, astrologers, saints, idols, demons, tarot cards, seances, Ouija boards, glossolalia, fuehrers, ayatollahs, popes, peyote, Jonestown, born-agains.

Jaynes shows how such external "authorities" exist only through the remnants of the bicameral mind. Moreover, he reveals a four-step paradigm that can reshuffle susceptible minds back into hallucinating, bicameral mentalities. The ancient Greeks used a similar paradigm to reorganize or reprogram the minds of uneducated peasant girls into totally bicameral mentalities so they could become oracles and give advice through hallucinated voices - voices that would rule the world (e.g., the oracle at Delphi). ... Today, people who deteriorate into) schizophrenic psychoses follow similar paradigms.

A common thread united most oracles, sibyls, prophets (including Jesus), and demon-possessed people: Almost all were illiterate, all believed in spirits, and all could readily retrieve the bicameral mind. Today, however, retrieval of the bicameral mind is schizophrenic insanity. Also, today, as throughout history, a symptomatic cure for "demon-possessed" people involves exorcising rituals that let a more powerful "authority" or god replace the "authority" of the demon. The New Testament, for example, shows that Jesus and his disciples became effective exorcists by substituting one "authority" (their god) for anothel "authority" (another god or demon).

As the voices of the oracles became confused and nonsensical, their popularity waned. In their places, idolatry revived and then flourished. But as Christianity became a popular source oj external "authority", Christian zealots began physically destroying all competing idols. They then built their own idols and symbols to reinforce the external "authority" of Christianity.

Among today's vestiges of the bicameral mentality is the born-again movement that seeks external guidance. Such vestiges dramatize man's resistance to use his own invention of consciousness to guide his life.

The chanting cadence of poetry and the rhythmic beat of music are also rooted in the bicameral mentality. In ancient writings, the hallucinated voices of the gods were always in poetic verse, usually in dactylic hexameter and sometimes in rhyme or alliteration - all characteristic of right-brain functionings. The oracles and prophets also spoke in verse. And today schizophrenics often speak in verse when they hallucinate.

Poetry and chants can have authoritarian or commanding beats and rhythms that can effectively block consciousness. Poetry is the language of the gods - it is the language of the artistic, right-hemispheric brain. Plato recognized poetry as a divine madness.

Most poetry and songs have an abruptly changing or a discontinuous pitch. Normal speech, on the other hand, has a smoothly changing pitch. Jaynes demonstrates that reciting poetry, singing, and playing music are right-brain functions, while speaking is a left-brain function. That is why people with speech impediments can often sing, chant, or recite poetry with flawless clarity. Conversely, almost anyone trying to sing a conversation will find his words quickly deteriorating into a mass of inarticulate cliches.

Likewise, listening to music and poetry is a right-brain function. And music, poetry, or chants that project authority with loud or rhythmic beats can suppress left-brain functions to temporarily relieve anxiety or a painfully troubled consciousness.

Jaynes goes on to show phenomena such as hypnosis, acupuncture, and deja vu also function through vestiges of the bicameral mind. And he demonstrates how hypnosis steadily narrows the sense of self, time, space, and introspection as consciousness shrinks and the mind reverts to a bicameral type organization. Analogously, bicameral and schizophrenic minds have little or no sense of self, time, space or introspection. The hypnotized mind is urged to obey the voice of the hypnotist; the bicameral mind is compelled to obey the "voices" of "authority" or gods. By sensing oneself functioning in the narrow-scope, unaware state of hypnosis, gives one an idea of functioning in the narrow-scope, unaware state of bicameral man.

Jaynes also identifies how modern quests for external "authority" are linked to the bicameral mind. Many such quests use science to seek authority in the laws of nature. In fact, today, science is surpassing the waning institutional religions as a major source of external "authority". And rising from the vestiges of the bicameral mind are an array of scientisms (pseudoscientific doctrines, faiths, and cults) that select various natural or scientific facts to subvert into apocryphal, authoritarian doctrines. That subversion is accomplished by using facts out of context to fit promulgated beliefs. Such mystical scientisms include astrology, ESP, Scientology, Christian Science and other "science" churches, I Ching, behaviorism, sensitivity training, mind control, meditation, hypnotism, cryonics, as well as various nutritional, health, and medical fads.

Today the major worldwide sources of external "authority" are the philosophical doctrines of religion (plus the 'other forms of mysticism and "metaphysics") combined with political doctrines such as Fascism, Marxism, and Maoism. All such doctrines demand the surrender of the individual's ego (sense of self or "I") to a collective, obedient faith toward the "authority" of those doctrines. In return, those doctrines offer automatic answers and life-time guidance from which faithful followers can survive without the responsibility or effort of using their own consciousnesses. Thus, all political systems represent a regression into mysticism - from conscious man back to bicameral man.

Despite their constant harm to everyone, most modern-day external "authorities" and master neocheaters thrive by using the following two-step Neocheating technique to repress consciousness and activate the bicameral mind in their victims.

1. First man is made to feel guilty. He is condemned for having lost his "innocence" by inventing consciousness. He is condemned for assuming the responsibility to use his own mind to guide his life. He is condemned for exchanging his automatic, bicameral life for a volitional, conscious life.. .condemned for exchanging his nature-given bicameral mind for a superior, man- invented conscious mind.

2. Then man is offered automatic solutions to problems and guidance through life into an "effortless" Garden of Eden or a utopian hereafter if he exchanges his own invented consciousness for faith in external "authority" - bicameral faith in some leader, doctrine, or god. He is offered the "reward" of escaping the self-responsibility to make one's own decisions and to guide one's own life. But for that "reward", he must renounce his own mind to follow someone else's mind or wishes disguised as the "truth" promulgated by some external "authority" or higher power.

But in reality, no valid external "authority" or higher power can exist or ever has existed. Valid authority evolves only from one's own independent, conscious mode of thinking. When that fact is fully realized, man will emerge completely from his bicameral past and move into a future that accepts individual consciousness as the only authority. .. .Man will then fully evolve into a prosperous, happy individual who has assumed full responsibility for his own thinking and life.

Still, the resistance to self-responsibility is formidable. The bicameral mentality grips those seeking mysticism or other "authorities" for guidance. Those who accept external "authority" allow government officials, religious leaders, faith, homilies, cliches, one-liners, slogans, the familiar, habits, and feelings to guide their actions. Neo- Tech II demonstrates how throughout history billions of people unnecessarily submit through their bicameral tendencies to the illusionary, external "authorities" of government and religion. And that submission is always done at a net loss to everyone's well being and happiness.

The Implications of Neo-Tech

To some, the implications of Neo- Tech will be frightening, even terrifying. To others, the implications will be electrifying and liberating. ... The implications of Neo- Tech are that each individual is solely responsible for his or her own life - responsible for making the effort required to learn honesty and guide one's own life through one's own consciousness. No automatic, effortless route to knowledge or guidance exists.

No valid external "authority" exists that one can automatically live by. To live effectively, an individual must let only the authority of his own consciousness guide his activities. All consistently competent people have learned to act on reality - not on their feelings or someone else's feelings or doctrines. An individual must accept the responsibility to guide his own life. He must constantly exert the effort needed to identify reality through his own consciousness in order to live competently and happily.

People knowledgeable about Neo-Tech have the tools to control all others who act on their bicameral tendencies. .. .Equally important, people knowledgeable about Neo- Tech have the tools to control their own lives and destinies, free from crippling mysticism and harmful neocheating.

THE END OF MYSTICISM

Neo-Tech I-V provides the knowledge needed for identifying the bicameral elements of any statement or action by anyone or any group (e.g., church, government, media, politician, priest, businessman, doctor, friend, parent, spouse, self). Armed with Neo-Tech, people can free themselves from the control or influence of mysticism and external "authority". And hopefully, by the year 2000, the discoveries of Neo- Tech and Neothink will have eliminated all vestiges of the bicameral mentality - all vestiges of mysticism and external "authority".

Without the bicameral mentality, all mysticism and external "authority" will wither and vanish, for they have no validity except that which is granted to them by the bicameral mentalities. With political and religious influences disappearing, the mechanisms for "authorities" to harm individuals and wage wars will also disappear. Thus, if civilization is prospering by the year 2000, (recall this was published in 1989) Jaynes's discovery along with the discoveries of Neo- Tech and Neothink will have contributed to that prosperity by ending the symbiotic, mystical relationships of bicameral mentalities with authoritarian societies (which now hold nuclear weapons). Such mystical relationships would sooner or later cause the annihilation of any civilization.

If our civilization is flourishing by the year 2000, rational human consciousness will have eliminated mysticism and external "authority" through fully integrated honesty (Neo- Tech). And without external "authority", governments and their wars will be impossible. Best of all, without external "authority" or mysticism, no one will be forcibly controlled, impeded, or drained by others. Without the chains of mysticism, non-aging biological immortality will become commercially available to every productive person wanting to enjoy life and happiness forever.