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To: E. Charters who wrote (83380)	3/17/2002 4:48:29 PM
From: ubetcha	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 117095

This is an excellent summation, and you are totally accurate. Shooting anyone is not a task that most people would put as their number one goal. Some how it becomes "livable" when the person next to you is in danger. I did not think about it, or talk about it for over 30 years. I "lived" with whatever anyone said about the War that I and others fought. I have finally decided that--NO MORE! I allowed myself to look back, and have even found 3 other people that I served with. We will be meeting in DC this coming weekend after not having seen each other for over 30 years. We are all gainfully employed. We are all still married to our first love. I know that what I am saying probably does not belong on this thread, but I could not let what Richnorth was saying go unanswered. We can hate the war if we want, but let us at least give some respect to those who gave their lives for what their country told them to do. Defending our country is what our government was set up to do. We fought to obtain our freedoms. The alternate to most is not acceptable. They just want someone else to insure that they have their freedoms. Thanks E. Charters, Terry

To: E. Charters who wrote (83380)	3/17/2002 6:15:31 PM
From: Richnorth	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 117095

Similarly both Yaitsef, the famous Russian sniper of WWII, and the Finn who shot 450 officers in the Russian war, were hunters who had to learn at an early age to pull a trigger when they did not want to. I thought it was Zaitsev, the top Russian sniper who took out the German top marksman. The report I read said that the top German sniper was so successful that they had to bring Zaitsev in. Armed with the newly designed (????)-Nagant sniper rifle and with the help of reflectors to "blind" the German champion, Zaitsev shot him right in between the eyes!!! Japanese snipers were also very effective on the Pacific islands, e.g., Iwo Jima and Wake Island until flame throwers got rid of them from their tunnels.

To: E. Charters who wrote (83380)	3/18/2002 1:14:49 AM
From: d:oug	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 117095

[not easy, soldier to pull trigger to kill] EC<:-} (or) Bunkum Golly Chatters, you are getting your directives mixxed up. But then that what happens when you being a non combatant o so desires to vision yourself a tested warrior in past events only to realize that you failed to venture into a situation that would have made it real, as you keep yourself away from what is called a soldier needed for an existing battle zone. Not sure but i think you are Canadian and missed Vietnam either having served not during that period, or if so you found yourself not assigned, and if so, did not ask for that transfer to be assigned. But no matter as the French Foreign Legion would have gladly accepted your service for a few years so that you could be sent to a war zone and if returned hurt or killed, it would not be a burden for the nation of France to grieve. Or simple become a mercenary just long enough to acquire that experience of death you associate with your gun talk. But no as i stated above, you are placing a round peg into square hole. While you present yourself as an accomplished warrior in thoughts only, you now project the difficulty to obtain that in reality as if it makes your's in thoughts equal to those who lived it in reality since as you stated it was a task few were able to take to completion. Golly almost as if your in thoughts only surpassed the experience a soldier in battle lived through while under fire and did not have what it took to return fire. But lets not just talk E.C., lets do a small walk about this. While i was in Vietnam with the Marines and a chopper dropped off the recoilless rifle to my position so that i had a weapon trained on to use against the enemy, i was at this situation the person in charge of this rifle, and once the loader loaded an anti-personal round into the breach with about 100 yards set for timer distance traveled, i gave the order to the gunner to push in that big button trigger. But wait, as a new green lieutenant yell the order not to fire, upon which i spoke loud and clear and fast since the enemy upon which i gave the command to the gunner to fire was running and would leave that small opening in the trees in about 3 seconds and be safe and be able to either return and kill us, or go elsewhere most likely and kill other American soldiers. Well seems that this officer was young just out of college and married a few years and had small children and the enemy he saw was not people in a war zone trying to kill him, but young women like his wife, and young boys and girls that in about 8 years his children will grow up to resemble. All he could reply to why we could not kill the enemy was that they were women and children, and that they already fired upon us with rifles and planted boobie traps for us to trip, well that somehow was not in the picture he saw, being women and children. Guess at that moment he knew his own safety was in tact, and felt it a trade off to let these women and children escape to do harm to other Ameican soldiers rather than think through what you state as fact. [not easy, soldier to pull trigger to kill] EC<:-} But then if war is hell, the words "not easy" might Do Not Apply. Or Chatters, what would you have done, my walk was to kill the enemy trying to kill me, and as stated many times on this thread, once you have deadly force focused upon you, whatta you gonna do? But then whats easy or not is unknowned to you, you having never been there, and yes Chatters, dangeous situations like a car accident or deer hunting accident ain't the same to an extreme not. No personal attack here Chatters, as it seems i'am doing the topic posting on this thread with an back and forth ignoring others requests for on topic posting. From: Richnorth Sunday, Mar 17, 2002 ... has been that way since time immemorial. So, when I mentioned that GIs... Terry, I didn't deliberately mean to cause [pain] in any way. ... was a bit insensitive to the anguish and guilt and self-doubt that still torment many a veteran today... what is done is done and it is time to carry on with one's life. Yea, exorcize the demons of the past! I maintain my comments were basically correct. But it was unfortunate I was misunderstood, in parts, or so it seems.[end.] d:ougak having no demons needing to be exorcised