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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (45920)	4/1/2002 11:41:31 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

"If this is the concept you have been challenging, I think you are fighting a straw man that does not exist in the 21st century in the mind of any intelligent and informed person who believes in God. It certainly does not exist in the mind of any religious person that I know." I fear you are still somewhat confused over the issue of a "personal" God. It also relates to the belief in immortality. People who believe in a personal God DO believe that God has attributes of a person...even when they do not necessarily believe that "He" has materiality. They believe that "He" has an interest in human beings which is different than "His" interest in the rest of creation--a creation which lives, dies, decays and enters into new forms and identities. The Christian religion is the quintessential example of a religion which places hope in a personal God; a God who is so concerned, in fact, with human beings, that "He" spent many years personally leading those whom he liked, in battle against those whom he did not. Einstein, in eschewing this child-like conception of god, also dismissed a belief in personal immortality or egoic importance (as do most scientists). Thus, the survey indicates that "Belief in the concept of human immortality, i.e. life after death declined from the 35.2% measured in 1914 to just 7.9%.". This is roughly the same as those who believe in a personal god. Those who allow for the possibility of a transcendent force which is supreme in the universe, find no reason to consider that they themselves are also supreme. "I think you are fighting a straw man that does not exist in the 21st century in the mind of any intelligent and informed person who believes in God. It certainly does not exist in the mind of any religious person that I know." Here again, you seem to be confusing the consideration of a god as a material person with the consideration of a god with the attributes" of a person such as compassion, anger, desires for acknowledgment and such. I know this is contradictory which is just one more reason why I suggest that people ought perhaps to develop a more modern conception of god. Science tells us that our feelings originate in our sense organs and are processed in our nervous system. Yet, people speak of God as if it was a conditional being with "feelings"...feelings and concerns which could only belong to the conditional and the contingent. If you believe that God "cares" for you and is affected by your behaviour, then you Do believe in a personal God...and you epitomise your concluding statement, however cruelly you may have stated it... Perhaps this will help: ditext.com "In order to discuss the question whether there is any ground for believing in the existence of a personal God it is necessary to begin by defining our terms. For the word 'personal' and the word 'God' are both highly ambiguous. I will begin with the word 'personal'." ... "...To conclude. Whether there be in fact a personal God or not, it seems to me that we have no good reason to believe in the existence of such a being. I think that there are such grave difficulties in the notion of a God in the theological sense that there are strong reasons against believing that such a being exists. These objections do not apply to the notion of Gods in the popular sense. For all I can see there may be dozens of such Gods; and the only reason against being a polytheist is that there is no reason for being one."

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (45920)	4/1/2002 11:48:47 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

If this is the concept you have been challenging, I think you are fighting a straw man that does not exist in the 21st century in the mind of any intelligent and informed person who believes in God. It certainly does not exist in the mind of any religious person that I know. Say what?!! You don't know religious people who think God answers prayers? You don't know any religious people who think that there's a heaven and hell to which we are assigned after death based on a) our deeds here on earth or b) whether we accept Jesus as our savior? Who handed down commandments to Moses? Who looks over them? Are you sure?