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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (46018)	4/2/2002 3:50:27 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Gosh- the most pretentious people I met in college came from philosophy, business, and the cultural identity programs (women's studies, black studies, american indian studies) I've no idea what their religions were, but I'd guess they were normally distributed religion wise. However on the pretentious-o-nometer they were off the scale. The philosophy students often seemed to think that by reading the core selections they had discovered the deep meaning of existence. The business majors often seemed to think that only their degrees made sense, and that they were doing "real" work while the rest of us were playing. (This despite the fact that business calculus was nowhere near as hard as regular calculus). And my experience with the students in the cultural identity schools was they thought they had discovered bias and discrimination, that very year! And now they were off on a mission to explain it to everyone else, whether or not the people they were explaining it to were more informed than they were. I've never met a pretentious atheist or agnostic. But then, definitions of pretentious, will differ.

To: Neocon who wrote (46018)	4/2/2002 4:15:14 PM
From: J. C. Dithers	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I've never found agnostics to be hostile, nor most atheists. The SI environment is somewhat artificial, as people come here to engage in argument as much as discussion, and the normal social restraints are not as strong here. In the case of university faculty (which we got into here), the work environment is somewhat artificial also, compared to ordinary social discourse. While wearing one's professorial hat, in a supposed intellectual atmosphere, I think it is natural that a person would keep a low profile about their religious beliefs, for fear of being regarded by colleagues as superstitious and anti-intellectual. If it happens to be a state university, there is even more reason to leave religiosity at home.

To: Neocon who wrote (46018)	4/3/2002 1:16:00 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

"In my experience in college...actual intelligence, as indicated by SATs...was not much of a predictor of who was religious and who was not." I have seen studies indicating otherwise. I am curious as to how many SAT scores you analysed and how extensive were your questions. You are aware, of course, that your comparison of SAT scores contradicts many of the tests that have been conducted during the 20th century, even by Conservative groups such as Gallup. Indeed, I can tell you honestly that I have never seen a test or survey showing a parallel relationship of increased religious belief alongside of advancing intelligence. Granted, I have my search bias and prejudice, and this might explain it to some degree. Still, if it was legitimately "out there", I am surprised to have missed it. I would much appreciate a more detailed recounting of your test methods in terms of your recollection--as well as whatever web links might inform a less tentative and subjective justification than that which you have shared with us... Your subjective perception that atheists were "pretentious" is certainly interesting. Such a subjective impression is gainsayed by objective studies; still; I appreciate that the perceptions of youth leave a deep imprint...howsoever hatched or generated. I suppose, that as a young man struggling to learn and to grow, it is not unreasonable to assume that your perceptions may have been contaminated by the loftiness that is so to be expected as a concomitant of youth. I think we all enjoyed far too much certainty during those formative years. I am confident that you were able to maintain an impartial eye to the truth better than most; but you know the old truism: years know more than books...