OK, point by point...
>Z, if you look at articles back when Israel took over the West Bank, Gaza et al, the Israeli thinking at the time was that by having these buffer zones, they were more protected from Palestinian incursions. And to a degree they were correct......the West Bank provides some separation between the refugee Palestinians and the Israelis.
Huh? No. Egypt used Gaza (and the Sinai Peninsula, which Israel took and gave back for peace) as a place to station its army and fire from. They also sent in gunmen from there. Jordan and Iraq went in from the West Bank into Israel in '48 and '67. The West Bank is home to the Judaean Hills, a strategic high point from which it is easy to attack the land in Israel below. The Palestinians were definitely not the main concern until the first Intifada, which started in 1987, and they weren't really a danger to Israelis until 1993, after the Oslo agreements were signed and suicide bombers began flowing into Israel. This was because the Palestinians were suddenly given a high degree of autonomy in the West Bank, and instead of developing economically, they built a terrorist enterprise. They really became a danger to Israeli citizens after the Camp David talks fell apart and Arafat launched the second intifada in 2000.
>Why is that? Why can't you so intimidate a people that they finally shout their mouths?
You can, Jordan did it with the Palestinians in the late '60s- however, Israel doesn't want to kill thousands of Palestinians, and I don't blame them.
>>doing so was just meant to take away geographical advantages that the Arab states around them had. The people in the territories were going to try and attack Israel whether it took over those territories or not-
>And they did, didn't they?
But they didn't, that much. They really were just fighting with sticks and stones until the Palestinians started governing and arming themselves. As I said earlier, the other Arab states were of much greater concern to Israel.
>First, although they may like to, the Palestinians are not threatening to take down all of Israel but they can undermine its sense of well being. And in the same way, gangs undermine the well being of this country, particularly for those Americans who live and/or work in our cities.
Most of the country's population is afraid to leave home. It's not too far from there that you have people starting to pack up and leave. That happens in inner cities in America, but most of the country isn't like that.
>No such hope exists for many Palestinian youth. And without hope, you have the ultimate terrorist.......the suicide bomber.
They aren't really doing this out of despair... they're doing it because they're being taught that they're helping their cause... that's because of the leadership, which has bomb factories, and hand out explosives with the purpose of suicide bombing... note that they're doing it in public right now (as you mention). The leaders also incite them to become martyrs through their speeches. Perhaps the peoples' minds are more malleable because of a lack of hope, but it's the propaganda of the Muslim leadership that ingrains them with the hate that causes them to do this.
>Where are all these sophisticated weapons that you worry about? Are they stored waiting for the ultimate battle? The Palestinians are certainly not taking advantage of them. Why do you think the Israelis do take some sh*t for their incursions into the West Bank towns? What we see fighting those rag tag insurgents is a well armed, well run modern army? Of course, the Palestinians come off looking like a modern David. I am smart enough to know that there is more to the Palestinian opposition than what we see but I can't sit here and have you tell me that the Palestinians command sophisticated weaponry....and not question what appears to be your bias.
Ummm... note how many people died in the two major bombings over Passover in Haifa and Netanya. They were huge! Why? Because the Palestinians are no longer using bombs made from fertilizer, they are using military-grade explosives. Also, there are plenty of mortar factories in the territories, and when the Israeli army went into the Palestinian cities, they found Kassam-2 and Katyusha rockets, both of which are capable of hitting the main cities in Israel proper. They also found two cases of anti-aircraft missiles and 200 anti-tank missiles. Also, many of the Palestinian gunmen are using AK-47s, RPGs, and other military-grade armaments. The IDF soldiers have in fact been surprised during these incursions by the quality of the resistance in these incursions.
>The Israelis don't use Madision Ave. PR firms.......they have well paid lobbyists and American Jewish organizations that promote their views and postion. In addition, American Jews through organizations like B'nai B'rth raise tons of money privately for Israel. Why do you think they get so much aid from our gov't, let alone American Jewry?
Uh...perhaps because they're a friendly country among hostile neighbors and perhaps couldn't survive without it. Besides, we always help our allies. Egypt gets almost as much aid from us as Israel does from us.
The Palestinians try to use the media to their advantage. They cry and cry about Israeli massacres, even though I've heard both Chris Matthews and Alan Keyes challenge them to name even one, and they cannot name a single victim, let alone a massacre. Mohammed al-Dura, a Palestinian 12 year old boy, who was shot to death on camera in his father's arms is their most used example. However, Israel had been saying for a long time that they did some investigation and that they found that he was in fact shot by Palestinians and not Israelis. A recent independent European study confirmed this. Many Palestinian civilians are dying because of a new tactic that the PA has been using in this intifada. In the first intifada, the people threw stones at IDF soldiers. In today's intifada, while they throw stones at the soldiers, gunmen hide among them and shoot at the soldiers. The soldiers shoot back, and civilians (stone-throwers) get caught in the crossfire. The leadership arranged this on purpose to win the sympathy of the West.
>Now, please explain to me how the latest military incursions by Israelis is doing the trick.
Well, there haven't been any suicide attacks against Israeli civilians in the last week. That's a pretty nice accomplishment, considering that before that, there had been an average of more than one a day for five or six days before that.
>So, for sure, the new Israelis settlements in the West Bank are really only temporary. Israel has no plan to annex the West Bank. The new settlements were only a temporary solution to a population explosion problem. Right?
The first settlements were established as a place to be able to house soldiers away from Israel proper. The new ones are established by the people, and not by the government. Israel offered to close all of those in 2000 at Camp David. Arafat turned it down.
-Z |
