I can not account for their emotions at any given moment. However, for the people in general, any good feelings a successful suicide bombing may provide them has to be fleeting. I guess they may see it as a win against Israel but I can't believe it takes the place of feelings that would be engendered if they had a good job or a nice home. I still contend that the average Palestinian wants the same things that the average American or Israeli wants.
Want as in want to get those things for nothing, or want as in working for those things, making them a priority over other things like celebration of of civilians killed by terrorists from New York City to Jerusalem?
Joe, you talk of the Palestinians like white men may have talked about blacks in this country 50-60 years ago. Many white people then [as well as now} thought that blacks were not willing to work, that they were incapable of a professional position, were probably intellectually inferior to whites and that essentially they were pretty much shiftless.
Fortunately, in the last 60 years with the improvement in our laws, enough blacks have 'made it' so that those theories have been debunked.
In spite of the Palestinians' refugee status and living conditions, I believe there have been 6 Palestinian Nobel prize winners in the past twenty years. How many more would there have been had their living conditions been better?
Nixon spoke of the silent majority, which was not really that silent, since it put him in office twice.
Nixon was full of it...........there is no silent majority. It has been proven over and over in polls that the so called silent majority votes much like the more vocal minority in this country......slightly left of center.
Among Palestinians, this silent majority for good either completely does not exist, or is so surpressed by the militants and PLO leadership that their voice can't be heard. In Afganistan, such a majority apparently existed, since Taliban fell like dominos.
There are good people everywhere.......I don't believe Palestine has been left out.
If the situation with Palestinians were the same as with Afganistn, all that would be needed is a little push to topple the leadership. Israel would know about it and tried it by now. My WAG is that the Palestinians want the suicide bombers to continue, and are willing to endure the retaliations, while scoring PR points.
I see very little basis for comparison between Palestine and Afghanistan......their histories are different, their cultures are different, their living conditions [rural vs urban] are different etc. Therefore your argument that Palestinians should react like the Afghans have reacted may not apply. I don't know what the majority of Palestinians feels about the current situation. To my knowledge, no one has bothered to ask them.
I don't belong to either party and I am unclear what the plank is that you are talking about.
The soak the rich plank. When Clinton said he was increasing taxes to make the rich pay their "fair share" the crowds went crazy. Even though he was lying, since since making the rich pay their fair share would actually mean a tax cut.
I think the taxing arrangements in this country are very fair. Do you have a specific gripe?
I find it offensive the money some of the wealthy throw around
Ahh.. there you go.
but would I feel any pleasure if they were hurt physically or financially.
I guess you don't see it as hurting them financially.
Oh screw that.........I am to feel bad that Bill Gates pays half his income to federal taxes. He has more money than God and even at the rate he gives it away, he will leave billions to his progeny. I can't get all teary eyed for the rich.........they do very well in this country thank you very much!!
Besides, the issue you cite is an American one.........I believe the struggle in Palestine goes well beyond it.
I don't know if there is anything more universal than resentment of people who are doing better, and your kind of parties around the world (socialist ones) are centered around this. They exploit it to the fullest. As I said, this is just one component of Palestinian resentment. There are others, that may be more justifiable.
There would be less resentment if everyone was given a fair chance. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.....it certainly isn't the case in Palestine.
Was it also thrilling for them when the Zionists were on the attack, and encouraged them to leave their homes? You talk about the Palestinians as if they were sub human. Is that what you think?
Are you talking now or 50+ years ago? That was different. I don't think that the whole idea of creating Israel in the manner it was created, giving it UN approval was handled very well. Some Arab inhabitants of the territories had a right to feel resentment anger, frustration etc.
Thank you.......I appreciate your honesty.
But this was more than 50 years ago!!! And in 50 years, they were not able to change subject, they are still talking about it, living it. I mentioned example of Germans, who suffered the same injustice in many parts of the world, at about the same time (Sudeten Germans for example), but who now live a well adjusted, prosperous lives.
First, 50 years is not a long time for people to feel angry. Besides, the Germans of 50 years ago had advantages that the Palestinians have never had. Plus, the Arabs and the Israelis have used the Palestinians as their pawns in their bitter conflict.......and the Palestinians know that. I think I would be pretty angry for a long time if that was happening to me and my fellow countrymen.
Sub-humans? No, but the mentality, the strategy, the emotions displayed (celebration of 9/11 on the streets) are just so foreign to me that I am having hard time accepting anything any of them say.
When people are angry they react in strange ways. I don't condone it.....it was offensive to me too. And it made it just that more difficult for me to understand their argement. We tend not to like very much people who are angry.
It seems to me neither side has any intention of stopping. Of course, Sharon from time to time says the right words but then does pretty much the opposite. That's why people in general are very worried.
Why does there always have to be a moral equivalency, in the eyes of some? I doubt Israelis, including Sharon want this cat and a mouse game (suicide bombing / retaliation). They would rather stay in thier homes, live their lives.
I don't know why Sharon is behaving the way he is nor why Arafat acts the way he does...........they've been fightng for so long, they probably don't know themselves at this point.
As far as the real / imagined, Israeli inflicted / self-inflicted problems of Palestinians, I am sure Israel would like them to just go away, sweep them under the carpet, not deal with them. And the way things are, if the Palestinians did not rock the boat, they would have hard time getting attention of Israel (or anyone else).
But as long as Palestinians are the terrorists, celebrate terrorists, as long terrorism is their only game, only strategy, count me out.
I understand.
ted |
