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Technology Stocks : Intel Corporation (INTC) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jim McMannis who wrote (164695)	4/29/2002 2:49:01 PM
From: willcousa	Respond to of 186894

I have a different take on Jerry. I think he is a patent medicine salesman and he touts whatever he has to work with. If he doesn't have mhz he sells quanti. I'm sure he knows what the market wants - he's effectively kicked off every major PC maker.

To: Jim McMannis who wrote (164695)	4/29/2002 3:07:22 PM
From: Elmer	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

I agree but I prefer not to believe either about yields and just look at who is shipping what. Yes, Intel is delivering higher speed chips than AMD (and they sell). I can understand that the Athlon won't scale as well and can forgive AMD for that. On the other hand, the lack of .13u nine months after Intel and the delay of Hammer just about says it all in regard to who's development and process is better. You're starting to "get it". But don't be too hard on AMD, they've done a phenomenal job with limited resources. As someone else said, Intel threw $20 Billion at R&D over the last few years. AMD is the second best processor company in the world. That's not bad. The fact that Jerry would dismiss the P4 as a dud and then have no answer for it's scalability says volumes about the density defects of his brain. I seem to remember you calling the P4 a bad design too... EP

To: Jim McMannis who wrote (164695)	4/29/2002 4:07:52 PM
From: tcmay	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

"RE:"You've got one company claiming "World Class Yields" and shipping nothing, while another company makes the same claim and is shipping millions. Who you gonna believe" "I agree but I prefer not to believe either about yields and just look at who is shipping what. Yes, Intel is delivering higher speed chips than AMD (and they sell). I can understand that the Athlon won't scale as well and can forgive AMD for that. " I'm with Jim on this one. Intel does not brag about "world class yields." Instead, they deliver. Aside from a few missteps, such as any company is likely to have, they have consistently delivered new generations and iterations for many years. It's AMD that has to "brag," or so it thinks. That they aren't delivering, and are slipping critical schedules, speaks a lot louder than their trash-talking brags. As for the point about Athlon not scaling, you say you "can forgive AMD for that." Well, this is something they should have realized about the same time that Intel was realizing that longer pipelines were necessary for scaling. (Recall Intel's "asymptotic" approach to the 1.1 GHz speed a few years ago...) Intel bit the bullet and went for the longer pipeline, thus initially being a bit disappointing when the speeds were around 1.6-1.8 GHz. But now that the speeds are coming out at 2.4 GHz and higher, even 3 GHz, air-cooled, the "breathing room" is turning out to be as promised. Likewise for the IA-64. AMD may well get some desktop sales in 2003-4 for their Hammers, but only as a "stopgap." The x86 core architecture cannot plausibly be extended for the next 10 years and extended for use as a building block for high-end machines. (Note that none of the current "mainframe" computers are based on x86: IBM has the Power4, Sun the SuperSPARC variants, HP _had_ PA-RISC and was working on VLIW before teaming with Intel, and Compaq/DEC had the Alpha. None of them were planning to use x86 architecture for enterprise/transaction processing computers.) So, AMD will eventually have to _also_ bite the bullet and move to a new architecture. Intel chose to start doing so several years ago, and now has excellent performance in the McKinley and Madison versions. I predict that AMD will realize, soon, that it needs to move to longer pipelines in its Athlon line. And it will realize in about 3 years that the Hammer is a dead-end. I'd say "better late than never," but the fact that AMD stock has been essentially flat for 20+ years tells us that it isn't. --Tim May