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Pastimes : MANIPULATION IS RAMPANT --- Can We Stop It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: id who wrote (34)	5/10/2002 2:42:34 PM
From: Dave Gore	Respond to of 589

TO ALL: Id's comments about "manipulation defenders" coming to this board are likely coming true. That's fine, actually. However, all must realize that the FACTUAL information will keep flowing though over time, I'm sure. Many absolutely hate to see a thread like this. But if they simply name-call and get unduly defensive, it will backfire. The truth will come out even more. Here is part of what id said last night: "given the shenanigans and manipulations that we all witness daily on the boards, we would be stupid to expect that defenders of the status quo will not surface on a board like this and trivialize all efforts to further level the playing field. i am a confirmed capitalist and don't want my comments to be misinterpreted as promoting some utopian/socialist pipedream, but changes in the direction of increased fairness reflect the flexibility of capitalism at its best. some have already been made and more are entirely possible given a sufficiently noisy public outcry, which, make no mistake about it, can be incubated on just such a board as this. even the most powerful are occasionally humbled by a few souls with that rarest of all combinations--decency and cajones :). let the discussion begin!" id

To: id who wrote (34)	5/10/2002 9:12:02 PM
From: id	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 589

hmmmm, ahhaha seems to be leading the assault i anticipated when i warned dave: "Dave-great thread idea! isn't it interesting that the poo-pooers have hit it hard and early? i suppose you realize your intelligence will be insulted, you will be referred to as foolish, naive, an idiot or worse. attempts to shame you and all the rest of us who believe it to be worthwhile to promote and participate a broad public discussion about rampant manipulation/corruption among the big boys must be anticipated and endured." ahhaha wrote: "NO ONE breaks the rules. It isn't in an MM's interest to do so...it isn't possible to break rules or manipulate." first, of course, is the obvious truth that no one making such a ludicrous claim (one immediately and rather effortlessly refuted by DG)can really expect to have any further claims treated seriously. moreover, the urgency, energy and antipathy with which ahhaha has responded to the initiation of this thread only confirms my remark that: "we would be stupid to expect that defenders of the status quo will not surface on a board like this and trivialize all efforts to further level the playing field." thus, other anxious responses to this thread: "This thread is an embarrassment to SI, eh?" and: "You are a disgrace" and: "what is the point of your thread?" this is all quite encouraging. that such a new thread has evoked such an immediate and hostile reaction should energize further discussion in a way that bored indifference never would have. i think it is safe to say, we're on the right track :). id

To: id who wrote (34)	6/20/2002 2:11:29 AM
From: Dave Gore	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 589

MY THREAD FAVORITE --- Worth reposting as it covers a lot of territory including reminders of some benefits to reform that have occurred as a result of public pressure. To:Dave Gore who wrote (31) From: id Thursday, May 9, 2002 11:56 PM View Replies (2) \| Respond to of 426 Dave-great thread idea! isn't it interesting that the poo-pooers have hit it hard and early? i suppose you realize your intelligence will be insulted, you will be referred to as foolish, naive, an idiot or worse. attempts to shame you and all the rest of us who believe it to be worthwhile to promote and participate a broad public discussion about rampant manipulation/corruption among the big boys must be anticipated and endured. Can we level the playing field? no, probably never entirely. but don't forget that over the past ten years, some leveling that had been resisted for decades upon decades has actually occurred. commission fees have plumeted, for instance, and the brokerage/mm welfare program of trading in 16ths, 8ths, quarters, etc. finally gave way in spite of fierce resistance for a hundred years. also, some, though not nearly enough, important limitations on the arbitrariness of MMs and specialists have followed public pressure by traders so it is patently false to say that public discussion/dissent is pointless. indeed, the intelligent response to such claims is to suspect the motives and loyalties of any who discourage dissent. given the shenanigans and manipulations that we all witness daily on the boards, we would be stupid to expect that defenders of the status quo will not surface on a board like this and trivialize all efforts to further level the playing field. i am a confirmed capitalist and don't want my comments to be misinterpreted as promoting some utopian/socialist pipedream, but changes in the direction of increased fairness reflect the flexibility of capitalism at its best. some have already been made and more are entirely possible given a sufficiently noisy public outcry, which, make no mistake about it, can be incubated on just such a board as this. even the most powerful are occasionally humbled by a few souls with that rarest of all combinations--decency and cajones :). let the discussion begin! id