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To: engineer who wrote (118641)	5/11/2002 7:09:03 AM
From: jackmore	Respond to of 152472

>>..."this does not make sense because if they really run up the users on GPRS, it overloads the GSM system" and will make the carriers have to invest in more BTS to get the needed capacity, but by having a service they can roll out now on GPRS at low cell density which works and then create a demand, they can get teh carriers to invest in more cell towers...<< Yes, this must be what they are trying to do. Apparently the Chinese have figured some of this out, and are not going whole hog on a GPRS rollout. If a few others catch on, the viability of the whole migration path may come under more scrutiny. With the continued delays and the escalating costs more and more apparent, the cabal has lots of explaining to do to customers. If there was no competing standard they could probably drag on for many years. But with a working alternative taking hold NOW, they have got to be sweating bullets. It is a long way to 2004. Competition is a wonderful thing.

To: engineer who wrote (118641)	5/11/2002 8:56:01 AM
From: foundation	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

engineer ---- It's amusing - and more than a bit ironic - that the pulse of 3GSM evolution in Europe and Asia can be monitored by tracking 2G infrastructure contracts. As Nokey noted last CC, perhaps the most sobering statistic was that European and Asian 2G infrastructure development was even slower than previously lowered expectations. Euro carriers know that GPRS data capacity does not exist without substantial infra costs for cell splitting networks. The vendors' promise that sufficient capacity would be supplied from floating "free" timeslots was a mistake at best - and perhaps a contrived deception. Bur carriers either won't, or can't afford, to follow. They're not spending on 2G infra, or data application development. They haven't progressed in linking GPRS networks for roaming due to "technology mismatches" - whatever the hell that means... One thing they will do is protect voice services. Now Nokey has the nerve to blame carriers for the lack of GPRS uptake - after screwing them to the wall. And now they push EDGEfantasies - whose 300% capacity claims are deceptions at best - where voice services would still consume 75-87% (6-7 of 8 timeslots and likely to grow) of ALL AVAILABLE CAPACITY. 2G infra contracts (or the lack thereof) in Europe and Asia is the key metric. Will carriers find the will and $$$ to follow vendors down yet another yellow brick road? How receptive would carriers' investors, bankers and lenders be to unexpected, substantial investments in 2G systems at a time when they're supposed to be evolving to 3G? As always, it's a funny world.

To: engineer who wrote (118641)	5/11/2002 10:19:42 AM
From: Jon Koplik	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 152472

engineer -- interesting "Eureka !" moment. (This proves that explaining weird, esoteric things to one's spouse rivals even those profound revelations that often come to people when taking a shower ...) Another thought : Isn't Europe the place where people really get into a major uproar (cow ?) (mad cow ?) when they hear that a new cell tower ("mast") is proposed to be built ? How 'bout 100,000 more "masts" ? Jon.