SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : WAR on Terror. Will it engulf the Entire Middle East? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: SARMAN who wrote (4196)5/11/2002 10:14:51 PM
From: Machaon  Respond to of 32591
 
<< Spreading hate and fear about a Muslims is not going to solve the problem between the Israelis and Palestinians but is only going to develop resentment and hate towards Muslims. >>

- The worst attack on American soil came from Muslims on Sept 11th.

- How many Muslim countries are democracies?

- The Taliban Muslims brought Afghanistan back to the stone ages, and used the country for a terrorist training camp, to destroy the civilized democracies of this world.

- The treatment of women by Muslim is awful.

- The largest threats to world peace come from Muslim extremist states.

I could go on. The Muslim world is a very scary place. Also..... out of all of the Muslims that represent the Palestinian cause, on the TV news shows, there has only been one Muslim guest in the past year that hasn't repeated the same, tired lies about Israel and the Palestinians.

That particular Muslim (I forget his name) was very candid and knowledgable about the history of the Middle East, and although he favored a better life for the Palestinian people, he was fair, and didn't spend his time on the normal, nausiating Arafat propaganda.

In other words, we don't really have to spread hate and fear against Muslims. They are doing a pretty good job of doing it themselves.



To: SARMAN who wrote (4196)5/11/2002 10:36:31 PM
From: Zeev Hed  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 32591
 
Abdul, Salam Aleikum. You are absolutely right, spreading hate and fear of Muslims is an exercise in futility and serve no good purpose. I think that Haim was citing an article by a British Journalist. The most important part of which being, IMHO: Those of a certain age can hear, in the terrifying rise of the far Right throughout Europe, the echoes of Weimar. The mark of true decadence in the West is the fact that it is not prepared to fight for its own values but is falling over itself to appease both terrorist violence and cultural aggression..

It is particularly futile since only Arab Muslims number probably 500 MM worldwide vs only some 5 MM of Jews in Israel. What surprises me, is that a number of official Arab press and television "outlets" engage in a similar campaign of fear and hate of the "Jew". Gosh, what are they afraid of, what are they envying, that puny .5% of the area in the middle east? That less than 1% of the relative population? Then why do Saudi and Egyptian papers repeat that ridiculous blood libel about Jews using children blood (Muslims and Christians?) to make their passover matza? I assure you, I am Jewish and eat Matza for Passover, and Jewish law forbid the use of, not only human blood in food, but even animal blood. Why do some hotels in Saudi Arabia offer, in lieu of an English Version of the Kuran, a copy of that libelous book "The conspiracy of the elders of Zion"?

Don't you think that teaching Palestinian children hate in kindergarten and from there on, is not only futile, but actually hazardous to those children future well being? Don't you think that sending a 16 years old girl to commit suicide is not only futile, but will create a trauma for the whole Palestinian people for years to come?

Look it is very simple, either there is a will for mutual understanding between Israeli and Palestinians or there is not. If that will exists, then following these kind of hate and incitement tactics will simply delay by 25 years or so the dream of national self expression for Palestinians. It is a chicken and an egg situation, as long as there is a large minority of Palestinians like Hammas and the Islamic Jihad, which is not controlled by the PA, the Israeli, to protect their citizen will have to, from time to time, go and carry out excursion to destroy these nests of terrorism. These nests are supported by the venomous incitement to hate and terrorism backed by the PA.

I know, you'll tell me Israel has to stop it's "occupation", and you and I are going to argue until we are blue in the face, whether it is "occupation" or whether it is "self defense", or even whether the current situation is simply what was so far agreed to in peace agreements between Egypt and Israel and Jordan and Israel, and now, we are all waiting (not so patiently) for an agreement between Israel and whomever will be the counter party on the Palestinian side. But, one thing Israel will have to insist on is the safety of its citizen, until the responsible Palestinian entity can assure such, the Israeli will have no choice but to assure that safety themselves. It is not as if for the last 50 some years, the Israeli where not threatened more than once to be thrown into the sea. They will want some concrete actions, a gradual situation, during which, the Palestinians reeducate its own population to mutual respect with its "future good neighbors", develops truly democratic and transparent structures, and means to control its own extremists. Israel last week arrested four extremist Jews intending to attack civilian Arabs, mind you, that was done before those extremists managed to execute their evil deeds, the Israeli would expect the same from a future PA, why should they not?

What if that does not happen? Well, it is quite simple, Israel will grind its teeth and every so often will suffer great pain from homicide bombers, and from time to time, they will have incursion into Palestinian territories, exacting an ever increasing "price". Why? Until it dawns on the general Palestinian population that their support of terrorist activities is counter productive and will cause an ever increasing "cost" to the Palestinians themselves. If you were an Israeli leader and your civilians were clamoring for some peace, you would do the same thing, you would make it too "expensive" for the terrorists to even contemplate that avenue of action.

The end result, of choosing the current approach (terrorising the Israeli population in the hope of demoralizing it?) is that after 25 years, many of these settlement that today could still be uprooted, will no longer be "uprootable", with further loss to the Palestinians of some of their future land. One day, a leader will rise within the Palestinians and will discover that there are no strategic goals that can be achieved by terrorism (just as there were no strategic goals that could have been achieved by Israel taking Damascus and/or Cairo in 1973, when they easily could), and maybe, another approach to the actualization of the Palestinian dream of self determination could be found. Terror only delay the achievement of that dream and diminish the eventual state the Palestinian could end up with.

Salam

Zeev



To: SARMAN who wrote (4196)5/11/2002 11:29:46 PM
From: Haim R. Branisteanu  Respond to of 32591
 
Dear Abdul,

If you read all my post on this tread you for sure learned that I had in the past arab friends, some of which I have found memories. But that has nothing to do with the ideology of Islam as it appears from many Internet sites. I truly believe that all humans are born equal the differences start by the ideology they chose or taught and some ideologies are designed to destroy those not belonging to them ..... as it seems to be the Islamic ideology as interpreted by many imams, scholars and tyrants.

Further for you to know, 25 years ago some one approached me as a family member of the Saudi Royal family in London to buy some of my products, which I embraced, we had an excellent relationship. Unfortunate noting came out of it.

Further I had 2 arab workers in my business in which workers I encouraged to learn, invested time and money by sending them to learn in the evenings to become better qualified for their work........... and if you mentioned my parents they loved my mother as she was bringing them from time to time sandwiches ............ they brought back small presents from their families for us .......... strangely when I fell ill in the hospital they stole from my business....... this filled my hearth with sadness.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I am unhappy that the Saudi Family is in power as is Assad, Saddam Husein and Mubarak. The recent events made me recall the horrors Muslims have done to Romanians over hundreds of years, which I learned about in Romania during my childhood, any one familiar with Romanian history knows what I mean. I found plenty of similarities between those stories and the events today.

As to the other more recent issues Barry already answered you.

As to a just solution as it stands now IMHO the world needs to reconcile the wrong and give the Jews their land West of the Jordan River to the sea. The arabs of the close region received the land East of the Jordan River - what is now Jordan. us-israel.org Those borders were defined after W.W.I at a time that all borders were defined in the ME and many countries were invented and did not exist before. As to the arabs living on the West Bank they should have two choices to leave from were they came to the other arab countries or accept Israel's laws and apply for Israeli citizenship.
Arab immigration was unrestricted. us-israel.org. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective Jewish immigrants.
The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922-36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.”9


Keep in mind that there is not such a thing like palestinian nation and it is all about land grabbing, as Mr. Farah an Arab American wrote in those articles.

worldnetdaily.com

worldnetdaily.com

worldnetdaily.com

worldnetdaily.com

as to your remarks about Hitler ....... Europeans were not tremendously worried that Jews were killed and exterminated during WWII, including the Brits and my father rest in peace remembered that quite well.

The gates of Palestine remained closed for the duration of the war, stranding hundreds of thousands
of Jews in Europe, many of whom became victims of Hitler’s Final Solution. After the war, the
British refused to allow the survivors of the Nazi nightmare to find sanctuary in Palestine. On June 6,
1946, President Truman urged the British government to relieve the suffering of the Jews confined to
displaced persons camps in Europe by immediately accepting 100,000 Jewish immigrants. Britain's
Foreign Minister, Ernest Bevin, replied sarcastically that the United States wanted displaced Jews to
immigrate to Palestine “because they did not want too many of them in New York.”


Hitler was stooped because he lost the war not because the Jerusalem Mufti and arafat uncle wanted to save to Jews. us-israel.org To the contrary arafat uncle proposed to Hitler how to exterminate more Jews and established the Muslim SS force in the Balkans.http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html

in 1945, Yugoslavia sought to indict the Mufti as a war criminal for his role in recruiting 20,000
Muslim volunteers for the SS, who participated in the killing of Jews in Croatia and Hungary. He
escaped from French detention in 1946, however, and continued his fight against the Jews from Cairo
and later Beirut. He died in 1974.


As to the other opinions about Islam and Muslims that I post, those text are freely available on the Internet an I find them very worrisome.

In an nutshell there are no problems between Israelis and palestinians as the later do not exist as an entity or nation or tradition there is a conflict between Israel and the Arabs and current rulers of the arab world have not offered any reasonable solution beside the destruction of the State of Israel and the spread of incitement to kill the Jews based on their interpretation of the Koran.

Do you have a real solution that will bring to an end of the Arab - Israeli conflict which will leave Israel as the homeland for the Jews ? (BTW the so called "Saudi Plan "is typical of sweet talk and a knife in your back ...... the Romanians over ages were again and again suckered in those type of sleaze talk, signed agreements only to be faced with war again. Vlad Tzepesh and Michael Viteazu were some of those leaders that were able to read it right. But then as now the Europeans got scared that little Romania my succeed to stop the arab onslaught on Europe and sold them out). I wish we had a Vlad Tzepesh today terrorist problems would not exist!!



To: SARMAN who wrote (4196)5/12/2002 10:31:35 AM
From: HH  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 32591
 
Abdul, your post was not directed at me but I will
share with you my own thoughts. I can only hope that
you (and others like you in the Arab world) spend the same
energy towards your own Arab brothers. Those who dont have
computers and access to a free television or radio.

Spewing hate exists in the Arab world. If you can openly admit this, and others like you can openly challenge some
pretty ruthless leaders and networks of terrorists thug
operators, then your message or peace and tolerance
will carry more importance.

Peace and tolerance, why doesn't Yasir Arafat lead
his people to freedom and prosperity with this theme?

HH



To: SARMAN who wrote (4196)5/12/2002 11:30:57 AM
From: Machaon  Respond to of 32591
 
<< Spreading hate and fear about a Muslims is not going to solve the problem between the Israelis and Palestinians ... >>

Spreading hate about Jews doesn't work either. Arabs can't have it only one way.

Next time an Arab Muslim representative, like the representative for Arab American Organization, is on TV listen to him. He decries the threats and attacks against Arabs in America. I feel the same as he does. He insists that Arabs be treated with civility and respect. I feel the same as he does.

But...... before he is done, the anti-Semitic lies that comes out of his mouth is awful. All of a sudden, my support for his pleas against anti-Arab discrimination start to fade.

How do Arabs expect to join Americans, in America's cherished fight against discrimination, when they bring their racial and religious hatreds with them to America?