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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Solon who wrote (12320)5/13/2002 12:22:15 PM
From: Grandk  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 28931
 
According to the hope I profess, once my new life is here things will be vastly different. No more pain and suffering.

I really do not know what to expect. I trust in the goodness of God and I believe that whatever He has in store for me will be wonderful.

I believe that there is a better place to come. The world we live in is a shadow of reality. However, this in no way should lessen one's resolve for living this life to the fullest. In Christ I am a new creation. He gives me the strength I need in order to be victorious in this life. Living a life of love and giving of myself is the least I can do for my God who has given me so much already.



To: Solon who wrote (12320)5/13/2002 3:51:10 PM
From: Grandk  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 28931
 
How can those who never heard about Christ be saved?

comparativereligion.com

This question is a natural result when Christians state that Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross is the only possibility for man’s salvation. From the very beginning, we have to emphasize an important aspect when dealing with this issue: Such a question can be raised only by those who have heard about Jesus Christ, but in most cases do not accept Him as Savior. Consequently, they use it as an excuse for ignoring their responsibility toward Christ and for adhering either to atheism or to other religions.

It is obvious that none of the readers of this site belongs to the category of those who never heard about Christ, as the entire Western history and culture has a Christian background. However, finding a proper answer to this question is important for many people today. It may help them understand better the fact that Christ’s sacrifice is indeed the solution for any human in this world, including those who lived prior to his incarnation, or after this event, in geographical areas not reached by Christian missionaries.

Two extremes should be avoided when addressing the salvation of those who have never heard about Christ. First, if humans could be saved only by hearing about Him, the multitudes which never had this chance during their lifetime would necessarily be damned to eternal suffering in hell. It is obvious that this cruel kind of God cannot be the God who died for them on the cross as absolute proof of His love. If He is all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful, He must have a solution for those who have never heard about His final revelation in Jesus Christ.

Second, if all other religions were valid ways to God, the Christian claim of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross being the only possibility for man’s salvation should be rejected. If any human could have worked out his salvation by performing righteous deeds, rituals, meditations, etc., as his native religion requires, God shouldn’t have adopted such a dramatic and absurd solution for our sins as the crucifixion. The rise of Christianity as a new world religion would have been useless, and Jesus only one savior among many.

However, Jesus Himself claimed to be the only possibility for any human’s salvation and reconciliation with God. He said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14,6). He commanded his disciples to go and proclaim this truth in the entire world (Matthew 28,18-20; Mark 16,15-16) and they did it (Acts 4,12). If other religions were as good as Christianity in attaining salvation, the effort of Christian missionaries would be absurd. Why would so many have sacrificed their lives, only to proclaim one of the many alternatives man has to reach God?

Therefore we cannot sacrifice the importance of Jesus’ atonement on the altar of modern syncretism. According to Christianity, salvation is provided only as a result of the specific historical acts performed by Jesus Christ in His life, death on the cross, resurrection and ascension. What He did is absolutely essential for the salvation of any human being who has ever lived, whether thousands of years BC or nowadays. Without Christ, no human could ever share eternal life with God.

As a result of the above considerations, we have to face a dilemma: Jesus Christ is the only way to God, but it cannot be possible that only those who have heard about Him can be saved. Salvation must be available also for those who haven't heard about Christ. The element which solves this dilemma is the criteria according to which God will judge those who never heard about Christ and grant them salvation. The Bible states that God is holy and will judge humans with justice (Acts 17,31), according to the available measure of revelation they had and their response to it, expressed through their deeds (Romans 2,6), words (Matthew 12,36-37) and thoughts (Hebrews 4,12). The amount of revelation one has determines a consequent measure of responsibility on his part (Luke 12,47-48). In the Western world, anyone has elementary knowledge about Christianity, and therefore the terms of one's salvation are clear. As to those who never had the chance to hear the Christian message, it is obvious that their judgment will require other criteria than responding to the historical Jesus Christ.

God’s desire for all humans to be saved cannot be questioned. The Apostle Paul states: “God wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2,4). The same is stated by the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 3,9). The important thing to clarify, then, is how does God show His grace to those who die without ever having heard about Jesus Christ?

General revelation
There is no doubt that any human has been presented God’s general revelation, which is through nature, conscience and culture. According to how they respond to it, the Apostle Paul proves (in the first three chapters of his Epistle to the Romans) that all humans are sinful and deserve condemnation, even in the absence of any coherent Christian message. This is the result of consciously rejecting general revelation; both the external one, that of creation, and the internal one, that of conscience. Creation is by itself a testimony about the Creator available to any human, as a kind of symbolic preaching that anyone can understand:

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse (Romans 1,20).

Out of all things that have been made by Him, man is the highest of all. Man was created in God's image and likeness, as a personal agent that is now in search of meaning and fulfillment. If the external revelation of nature is not enough, then the internal one, that of conscience, is even more significant. Man’s conscience knows intuitively God’s moral standards and warns when they are trespassed:

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them (Romans 2,14-15).

Anyone who performs evil is consciously acting contrary to the demands of his conscience. (However, conscience can become perverted itself, but only after a process of constantly rejecting its natural right demands.) The true problem of man is not the lack of revelation, but a wrong way of responding to it (Romans 1,21-23). Therefore, God could find enough reasons to judge and condemn those who never heard about Christ. Due to the fact that He could condemn them on the basis of their response to general revelation, the next point is to see how they could still be saved.

Grace attributed retroactively
If those who never heard about Christ could be saved only as a result of their response to general revelation, we should also accept that salvation can be attained as a reward for one’s good deeds. But the Bible states clearly that nobody can earn his salvation through morality or good deeds (Ephesians 2,8-9). However, the Bible also speaks about people who never heard about Christ but still are saved (Hebrews 11). Before analyzing these cases, it should be emphasized that if salvation depended exclusively on how much information one had about Christ, we would fall into the trap of Gnosticism (salvation through attaining right knowledge). Knowledge doesn't save us, but only God, as we respond in faith to His revelation, no matter how limited it might be. God does not limit His grace to those who have enough information of Him. As the examples mentioned in The Letter to the Hebrews (chapter 11) prove, the salvation of those who never heard about Christ depends on two basic requirements: 1) their response to the amount of revelation they had, which is their responsibility; 2) the retroactive conferring of Christ’s sacrifice, on the basis of the faith they manifested through properly responding to general revelation, which is God’s responsibility. Let us analyze how this works.

The 11th chapter of the Letter to the Hebrews gives many examples of people who lived in the Old Testament time and were saved without hearing about Jesus Christ. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, David and others, are all considered heroes of faith, despite the fact that none of them heard about Christ. Jacob (Genesis 49,10), Moses (Deuteronomy 18,15) and David (Psalm 22) prophesied about His coming, but didn’t understand too much about its soteriological value. Others like Rahab (Joshua 2,1-21; Hebrews 11,31), Naaman the Syrian (2 Kings 5,1-19; Luke 4,27), Melchizedek (Genesis 14,17-20; 7,2,15-17) and Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses (Exodus 18), were saved although they didn’t even belong to the people of Israel. They accepted the small amount of revelation they got, responded in faith and as a result God conferred on them the atoning sacrifice of Christ. Faith is the key element here. It means trusting in the promises of God and responding through effective action to His initiative (Hebrews 11,1-3). Faith is not limited to understanding the doctrine of atonement, but rather engaging in a trusting relationship with God.

While analyzing these famous examples of the Old Testament, we can observe the various kinds of revelation they had from God: Noah was warned about the imminent coming of the flood; his response proved his faith in God’s promise to save him together with his family (Genesis 6-9). Abraham trusted God’s promise that he would be blessed with a son and become the ancestor of a big nation (Genesis 12-22; Hebrews 11,8-19). God proclaimed him righteous because of his faith: “Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness” (Genesis 15,6). Isaac, Jacob and Joseph, the descendants of Abraham, trusted in God and were blessed. Moses trusted that God would free the Jewish nation from Egyptian bondage and lead them into the Promised Land (Hebrews 11,20-22).

Not only people belonging to the chosen people of Israel were saved in the Old Testament time, but also Gentiles. Melchizedek was called “priest of the God Most High” (Genesis 14,18) without having any blood relation to Abraham. He worshipped the same God, and Abraham even paid tithes to him. Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses, finding out what God has done through the Jewish nation, accepted by faith that the God of Moses is the true god. Rahab, the prostitute (!), hearing about the approaching of Israel, risked her life in order to hide the Jewish scouts (Joshua 2,1-21; Hebrews 11,31). This was the effective way she expressed her faith in the true God and therefore was counted among the heroes of faith. Naaman the Syrian (2 Kings 5,1-19; Luke 4,27) banished his pride when he understood who the true God is, showing his faith by his decision to abandon idolatry.

All these people of the Old Testament, heroes of faith, have not been saved through their merits, but through the grace of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, retroactively attributed to them. Their faith was the instrument through which God granted them salvation, the same instrument He uses today for all people who accept the sacrifice of Christ as the atoning solution for their sins (Hebrews 11,39-40). Although the type of revelation differs (today we have available the final revelation of God, through Christ), the object of faith remains the same - God, and the basis of His forgiveness cannot be other than Christ’s sacrifice. For both those who lived before and after Jesus’ crucifixion, God’s forgiveness was always granted through grace and not by one’s own merits, and the proper way of accepting grace was and will always be faith. The sacrifice of Christ is the element that validates the faith of humans who lived both before and after His incarnation.

Neither those who lived prior to the incarnation of Christ, nor those living after His death but without knowing anything about it, can be saved exclusively through their religion. A clear example is that of Naaman the Syrian, who had leprosy. The prophet Elisha didn’t suggest that he should bring more sacrifices to the Syrian god Rimmon, didn’t encourage him to be more honest and devoted to his native religion, but sent him to the Jordan River. By his initial refusal, Naaman is a symbol of man’s opposition toward God’s special revelation. The desire to earn salvation (in Naaman’s case through bathing in the holy Syrian rivers, making offerings, etc.) is a natural product of a false religion. Very often the adherents of Eastern religions fit into this category. They refuse God’s grace, claiming to be able to attain salvation (liberation) by their own efforts. However, God cannot validate this effort, as it is a product of pride, of man’s attitude of independence toward God. Following the ancient promise “you will be like God” (Genesis 3,5), by using a great variety of teachings and techniques, more or less sophisticated, while refusing grace, cannot be a valid way to God.

Salvation for those who never heard about Christ but accept the importance of grace
The above considerations do not imply that all those who don’t know anything else than their native religion are automatically condemned. There have been enough spiritual masters who recognized the necessity of grace and the impossibility of reaching salvation by one’s own efforts. Ramanuja and Madhva are brilliant examples in the Hindu tradition, as is Shantideva in Mahayana Buddhism. More than that, the entire spiritual trend called prapatti in Hinduism, or the Pure Land school of Buddhism, focuses on grace as the only solution for attaining liberation. According to them, the whole merit for getting saved belongs to the god (in Hinduism) or bodhisattva (in Buddhism) they worship. There are also many cases of tribal religions in which grace plays a key role in salvation.

The God who reveals Himself in the Bible knows man’s inner attitude and his motivation for performing certain religious duties. All efforts which point toward self-justification are of no value, no matter how impressive they could be. However, if man’s attitude is one of humility, recognizance of his own weakness, and acceptance of grace, which God offers unconditionally, the situation in completely different. We have observed this attitude in the prapatti devotional trend of Hinduism, which demands giving up the control of one's personal life to the god Vishnu and leaving to him all responsibility for attaining salvation. The adherent of this trend has to acknowledge that he is not good enough to deserve liberation by performing rituals and moral obligations. As mentioned in a previous file, the whole prapatti philosophy can be summarized in the following verse, written by Vedanta Deshika, a 14th century follower of Ramanuja:

Lord, I, who am nothing, conform to your will and desist being contrary to it, and with faith and prayer, submit to you the burden of saving my soul (Nyasadashaka 2).

The same is the case with the Pure Land School of Mahayana Buddhism, which flourished in Japan. According to its doctrine, the bodhisattva Amida (the Buddha of Infinite Light) is able to save even the most despised sinner by his grace (tariki). To reach his paradise by human efforts (performing meditation or good deeds) is impossible. This can be attained only through Amida’s grace.

Such spiritual trends in other religions prove that the Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convincing people of their sin and turning their hearts toward God. According to the character displayed by the God of Christianity, He will save such people, by the grace available for all in Jesus Christ. They will be saved not through their native religion, but despite of it, as a reward for their humility and recognition of the need for grace. If there are many or few people in this category we cannot know.

A classic example of how people belonging to cultures completely foreign to the Judeo-Christian world can still have a revelation of God and meet him is the Magi from the east mentioned in Matthew 2,1-12. Despite the fact that they were astrologers and probably believed that human destiny is shaped by the stars, which is contrary to biblical teaching, they still were granted a special revelation from God regarding His major intervention on earth to save humankind from sin. They worshipped Jesus as King of the Jews and brought Him gifts worthy of a king. Some theological speculations see the gifts as pointing to His divine nature (gold), His divine priesthood (incense) and sacrifice (myrrh was used for embalming). Their coming to Judea was obviously not customary. It was not a rule for the Magi to worship the kings there at their birth. This episode was rather a surprise for all, and a serious reason for Herod to feel his throne threatened. This example shows that God can use unorthodox methods to reveal Himself to those who are completely foreign to His revelation in the Bible. He has sufficient means to do it all over the earth. The most important factor, again, is human response to His revelation, as the Magi could have ignored the Bethlehem star. However, their journey proves their faith and brings them to worship the true God.

Man’s problem has never been the lack of revelation, but only pride and refusal to change his attitude towards grace. People do not respond to the amount of revelation they already have; they know what to do, but refuse to do it. Most of Jesus’ contemporaries rejected Him because they refused to believe, despite all fulfilled prophecies, miracles, healings and even His resurrection. The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16,19-31) is extremely relevant here. People are given everything they need in order to be saved, but if they refuse the available revelation, they are fully responsible for it and cannot be justified at God’s judgment. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ tells us that man lacks any chance to please God by his own efforts, that God’s grace in Jesus was an absolute necessity and His love for us was big enough to save us from the spiritual disaster to which our illusory independence would have brought us.

One more aspect should be addressed here: If people can be saved without ever hearing about Christ, does it mean that Christian missions are futile? There are two important reasons to reject this hypothesis. Before mentioning them, it should be acknowledged that if the salvation of tribes living in remote areas depended entirely on missionaries’ preaching, a lot of people will suffer eternal damnation in hell only because Christian missionaries didn’t manage to reach their part of the world in time. In many cases the disobedience of Christians to go into remote parts of the world would be responsible for that. Even worse would be the case of missionaries that have reached remote parts of the world but didn't preach the "right" Jesus. Remember the way most Spanish conquistadors have proclaimed Jesus to the people of (today's) Latin America. They haven't preached the true image of Jesus Christ (a loving Jesus). Therefore, condemning people to hell because of the sin of some Christians isn’t at all consistent with God’s perfect justice and love for the lost.

There are two important reasons for Christian mission in the world. First, Jesus himself commanded it (Matthew 28,18-20). He is the final revelation of God and His message of salvation has to be proclaimed “to the ends of the earth” (Acts 1,8). That people can be saved without hearing about Christ is only a temporary solution, which operates only until His message will reach all humans. Second, all people should share the fullness and blessings of the Christian life, not only in eternity, but also during this present earthly life. The love of God in a personal relation with Him and also in the Christian community can be experienced starting from now, as Jesus came to redeem our earthly life as well.

In conclusion, God didn’t leave the world without a proper testimony about Him (Acts 14,17) and doesn’t condemn anybody without first revealing His grace. Although this article on the question “How can those who never heard about Christ be saved?" may not satisfy some of you, remember that nobody’s salvation depends on how convincing such an answer could be. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross is and remains the only ground for human salvation. Rejecting it (by those who heard about Him) cannot be justified by the lack of intellectual satisfaction one gets from polemical debates foreign to our spiritual context.



To: Solon who wrote (12320)5/13/2002 7:38:13 PM
From: epsteinbd  Respond to of 28931
 
That's the way to tempt me, dear Solon.
"New life, new body." (Not that I complain), but the perspective are tremendously appealing. I can already name a dozen creatures I want to be, just among the tall two legged Viking type, especially if I can get to chose the inner instincts too, make them ancient Greek like, islands, Lesbos would be perfect.

OK, Solon, what do I have to do to say ?
You just tell me.
I do.
Even in the morning.

But I am scared! Isn't it very difficult? Far beyond my possibilities. Will I get back the answer : not good enough, again. Like the Rabbis were telling the kid I was, not intelligent enough, only the real intelligent see the light...

Now, thinking about it, it will not be a problem for me to reach paradise.
At all.

Once you'll all be there, you'll all be fed up partying every single night on the theme "how nice it is, was the end of your night as pleasant as the party was, this is much better that the Carribean tour, remember darling, or, was your girl friend, this morning, still as fiery as...
You'll be so bored.
You'll just airlift me up there like any Mohammed (note :I have no horse, and Jerusalem as a heavenport : I have seen no proof, and we searched, we dug.)
So the, once well up there after immersing into that new civilisation of yours with some excesses, well you know, only human ones, don't worry, and nothing too much. No Marquis de Sade or anything. I want to make it clear. I appreciate your friendship.

SO, after I'd have what the most Traditionalists around would name sin, (yea the three letters word, with Nat Haw and His only ONE letter and all.) I'll cool down a bit and recommence to Dibbouk you till the end of Time. And I'll
scratch your head, by pull your ears, because... don't tell me that you expect me to believe that, up there, you'll not spend your time parying but reading the Bible.
So look at yourself in the mirror, and your Dibbouk tells you that till I join you up there, you'd better enjoy it down here. With excesses if no one is hurt in any way...

Now, don't play with me pretending that you never lived, that you are pure ! And if you are pure it is because you are shy. Beautiful : shy is nice. So, I have tracked the humans behind your posts, I have crawled along your lines, hide in trenches, I send out my own flares (posts) to you, just to check how you would trip on that stone, get caught on that hook. I here or there brought a strong debating point that settles me questionning. But wasn't that post just intended to trip you into some more self confidence?
And then...?

Are you really sure of who I am, very brave people of this thread ?
Aren't you scared ? Sometimes at least...?
Like me, right now, at the end of this enduring night.
Waiting for a sun that only seems to be late because man is not perfect.