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Politics : Right Wing Extremist Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: craig crawford who wrote (26167)5/16/2002 12:01:02 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 59480
 
here is your first mistake. the united states is the greatest marketplace on earth. to imply that we need to appease our foreign trading partners by allowing them access to our markets while they close off their markets to us is the type of liberal appeasement thinking that i have been referring to.

I don't want to appease anyone. We should lower trade barriers because it is in our own interest to do so.

i didn't say it depends on world government, i said it leads to world government.

What evidence do you base this claim on? What world governments have existed because of free trade? If you consider the WTO to be a world government I would say that it really isn't, and in any case you can lower trade barriers without anything like the WTO. You just pass a law that reduces or eliminates the tariffs or quotas, and you have just reduced trade barriers. No international bureaucracy is needed in order to do that.

The truth is, however, that every so-called free-trade agreement requires the establishment of some administrative and bureaucratic mechanism to enforce its terms -- and, to adjudicate disputes that arise concerning their observance and application. These mechanisms can affect many things that today fall under the purview of national and state or provincial legislatures, including things like the terms and condition of labor, health and safety regulations, environmental regulations and so forth.

Free trade can be created without a formal agreement, or it can be created by formal agreement without an international burocracy to oversee it, or it can be created with such a burocracy but one that does not have any rights over or responsibility for labor, safety or environmental regulations.

In light of the potential breadth of the free-trade agenda, therefore, people who care about their freedom must thoughtfully consider whether the mechanisms being established to make decisions about that agenda meet the requirements of constitutional self-government.

As long as it follows the constitutional procedures then a treaty does not violate the constitution. As for it meeting the requirements of self government, as long as sovereignty still rests in the US government then there is no change in our level of self government. Our government could withdraw from or even just ignore the international bureaucracy if that is what our people really wanted.

The result is a system in which decisions are taken and agreements fashioned through the executive, which are then handed to the Congress for cursory review and ratification. Under the GATT system, the specific details of each new round of free-trade arrangements were subject to this congressional review. In the new era of the WTO, however, new arrangements can be agreed to and implemented without congressional involvement, including, of course, administrative judgments that our chief executive is treaty bound to implement. In effect, this creates a supra-national legislative process in which the executive branch has the initiative and through which the executive can create facts that the national legislature cannot review or modify.

The US is not bound by a treaty unless it is ratified. If congress does not carefully consider and deliberate about what is put in front of it for ratification then the blame belongs to congress not to the WTO or to free trade.

The demonstrators who clamor for greater equity -- and for regulations that address environmental concerns or issues of income and wealth distribution -- may be creating a scenario in which these national chief executives are dragged kicking and screaming in a direction that greatly increases their control of economic and social policy in their respective countries.

All these concerns are not about free trade. They may be written in to a treaty that is about free trade or is called a free trade treaty but they are not free trade. They are separate issues. You attack them, and I probably agree with your attack but you are not making an effective attack on the idea of free trade. If a treaty is proposed, signed or ratified that includes extensive measures in this area, I might join you in attacking it, but the fault would be with the specific treaty not with free trade in general.

Tim