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Pastimes : MANIPULATION IS RAMPANT --- Can We Stop It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LPS5 who wrote (290)	5/24/2002 11:17:00 AM
From: Dave Gore	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 589

LP, OK, I'll bite because you do make some good points (along with some horrible ones -- see below) and at least take the time to think about things. The problem I am having with you is that you seem to love to argue the tiny details. It is irritating trying to carry on a discussion with someone who takes apart every word and misses the bigger, much more important picture. In this imperfect world, I am trying to look at the small victories and the big picture. And we are indeed making some progress. Many of us would like to see manipulation removed from the markets. Yes, I agree with you, there should have been regulations, like some just being announced, all along. We should have never had to deal with all the Pro Forma loopholes either (something that Standard and Poors is now trying to address). Also, Harvey Pitt should never have been given the SEC job with all his conflicts. Analysts should never have been allowed to play their games for so long. Market Makers should never have been able to fix prices or charge buyers of stock higher prices than were warranted a few years back. And yes, the decimal system should have replaced the fractional bid/ask years ago. But changes have happened for the better, wrong-doers have been punished, and yes, there is much more to do. The point is that there is some good happening, especially when we demand it. Like the founder of Vanguard said yesterday on CNBC, if people speak out and demand change, it will happen. That's the whole point of this thread. That's the big picture. That people speaking out can make a difference. Maybe sometimes it's a small difference, but E-mailing Carl Levin, CNBC, and a variety of important political figures and media will help. In fact, because we care is why Business Week magazine felt it was time to devote nearly a whole issue to "The Betrayed Investor". Because we care, Senator Levin and the rest of his subcommittee are dealing with a couple issues, as is Eliot Spitzer with Merrill and soon another dozen brokerage houses on analyst conflicts. That's the point. Understand? Does that make any sense to you? When you said this the other day, you really lost me: you said: "I also believe both (a) that you can't legislate ethics, and that (b) even when you try to alleviate their responsibility (a perilous prospect for everyone), fools will find a way to lose their money - so it's not only unjust but pointless - in the securities industry and in every aspect of American life, to make every individual, community, and business subsidize the stupidity, naivete, and/or misfortune of one subset of the population." **** I submit to you that what you say and believe is about the saddest commentary on the Markets and American life that I have ever heard. It is not pointless to pass regulations that protect all, even (to paraphrase you) the "Stupid, naive subset". This is especially true, since the subset you refer to is perhaps most of the investors in this county. Your "stupid subset", based on performance over the last 2 years, includes many mutual fund managers who make decisions on trillions of dollars earned by hard-working Americans. The ones that have lost many Americans collective billions of retirement money. In conclusion, you don't remove Speed Limits just because 95% of the time you can get away with speeding. You attempt to correct the wrongs, which I admit happen all too slowly.