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Politics : America Under Siege: The End of Innocence -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Richnorth who wrote (15955)	5/31/2002 11:03:11 AM
From: Qone0	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 27666

Rich you have the facts all wrong. The US did a number of reprehensible things that were not reported to Americans. Like, for example, the US reneged on its promise to pull out of Saudi Arabia. No, IRAQ reneged on its promise to give UN WMD inspectors free and unfettered inspections in IRAQ. Thus causing the US to stay in Saudi. This caused Osama to be angry at the infidel Americans being still around and thereby defile the sanctity of the holy places in Arabia. Yeah that is a good reason to attack civilians. The US base is not at any holy places in arabia. The US is also seen to be favoring Israel to the tune of $3 billion per year thus enabling Israel to be powerful enough to humiliate the Arabs where firepower is concerned. Imagine what if the US also gives the Arabs, especially the Palestinians, $3 billion annually in aid and armaments. The Arabs receive 100`s of billions annually in oil revenues. The Arabs don`t care about the Palestinians. There really is no Palestinians. The west bank was part Jordan and gaza was part of Egypt. These two countries attacked Israel lost the land when they lost the war. Then the "Palestinians people" myth was created. The Arabs abandoned them after they lost the war. Also Israel is perceived by the Moslems to be sly, sneaky, untrustworthy, treacherous and predatory, and the Moslems are hurt no end that the US is favoring Israel. Didn`t the Arabs start all the Wars? Furthermore, throughout history, the West had defeated the Muslims many times whereas the Moslems were on top only once and that was during the Ottoman Empire of the Turks. As if to add insult to injury, the West (Britain) arbitrarily carved up the Middle East into various kingdoms. For example, presentday Kuwait was formerly a part of Iraq but it was created by the British. The French created Syria and Lebanon. Why? All because the West wants to exploit the oil-rich Middle-East and they are still doing that today. If it were not for oil, the West would have left the Middle East alone a long time ago. From this one can see that the anger and the humiliation experienced by the Arabs run very deep. Yep, the muslims invaded Europe 400 or so years ago. Lost that War too. They have a bad habit starting wars then losing them. Then whining about it. If you call $20-30 a barrel for oil exploting what would be a fair price for their oil? Seems to me that if the west really was exploting them. The west would just go in and take the oil for free. Hmmmm that is not a bad idea. I am, therefore, not surprised they want to get even. Unfortunately for them, none of the Arab countries is a power to reckon with. Yet the West fear them. The west does not fear Arabs. LMAO man that is funny. There is only one reason all arabs are not in slavery to the west. The reason is the morals of the west. As I pointed out there are several ways of looking at the same issue. For example, what you call mindless suicide bombing is to the convinced Arab fighter an act of supreme sacrifice of himself. And for him it is this sacrifice of himself that takes precedence over everything else. You would have a point if the suicide bombing was targeted at military targets. But since they are targeted at Civilian targets they are nothing but brain washed cowards. Saddam Hussein once said that the Palestinians resort to suicide bombing simply because they lack armaments to match the firepower of the Israelis. Now there is a person to be quoting. When he gassed the kurds did ANY arabs counties come to their aid? Nope not one. What I have seen so far is that each side insists it is right and the other side is stupid and dead wrong. This is human nature and it is very understandable: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." Yep and the war will rage on until either one side is dead or changes its way of thinking. Only all out war brings about lasting peace. Negotiations just prolong war. As for the Koran inciting Moslems to kill the infidels, I understand that in the context of a Jihad --- a religious war. Moslems normally do not kill non-Moselms in peace time. So 9/11 should be seen in the context of Moslems carrying out their Jihad --- a holy war. The last holy war fought between the Muslims and the west was called the crusades. Maybe its time for another one.

To: Richnorth who wrote (15955)	5/31/2002 11:44:55 AM
From: epsteinbd	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 27666

Richnorth, you say : "911 should be seen in the context of the Moslems carrying out a Jihad - a holy war." Do you really mean this ? The Moslems ? Is it a revenge from the Euro domination ? From the US present economic domination ? In Saudia, too ?

To: Richnorth who wrote (15955)	5/31/2002 4:56:46 PM
From: Nukeit	Respond to of 27666

<<Like, for example, the US reneged on its promise to pull out of Saudi Arabia.>> The U.S. never said they would pull out of Saudi land. The reason the U.S. did not pull out of Saudi land is because of international pressure. Do you actually think the Saudi's are smart enough to get the oil out of the ground without the superb American know how? We would then be blamed for the Saudi's starving like the rest of the muslim world. <<Imagine what if the US also gives the Arabs, especially the Palestinians, $3 billion annually in aid and armaments. But that is not happening. Nor is that going to happen any time soon.>> Thats easy. I imagine there would be millions of innocent people and that means anyone that is nonmuslim would be murdered and slayed as the teachings of the false prophet says. The money would also go to waste like the 2 billion a year given to Egypt and the 500 million given to Jordon and the billions we waste on other muslim countrys. If they would quit asking for handouts then that is the first step to independence. When they decide to burn the quran, then that is when they will seek salvation from the rich north. <<Also Israel is perceived by the Moslems to be sly, sneaky, untrustworthy, treacherous and predatory, and the Moslems are hurt no end that the US is favoring Israel>> Who gives a shit what muslims perceive. The rest of the world sees muslims that way. <<Furthermore, throughout history, the West had defeated the Muslims many times whereas the Moslems were on top only once and that was during the Ottoman Empire of the Turks. As if to add insult to injury, the West (Britain) arbitrarily carved up the Middle East into various kingdoms. For example, presentday Kuwait was formerly a part of Iraq but it was created by the British. The French created Syria and Lebanon. Why? All because the West wants to exploit the oil-rich Middle-East and they are still doing that today. If it were not for oil, the West would have left the Middle East alone a long time ago. From this one can see that the anger and the humiliation experienced by the Arabs run very deep>> I would be humiliated too. <<While it is true that the Moslem attacks killed many innocent lives (a few under 3,000), it should also be realized that US sanctions on Iraq has also killed many innocent men, children and women (close to 100,000), too, and also made life very miserable for the people of Libya. of course, the US is not going to advertise how many Arabs died as a result of its foreign policy.>> Unfortunely America has not learned its lesson. Don't turn your back. Muslims carry sharp knives. I agree, if we leave the muslims alone they will end up killing theirselves. Thus the whole world benefits. <<You said your business is down these days. Is it because of the economic slowdown or because you and your farmheads nowadays just want to keep the lambs for yourselves?>> We want to keep the lambs for ourselves.

To: Richnorth who wrote (15955)	5/31/2002 8:18:14 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 27666

You said..." Imagine what if the US also gives the Arabs, especially the Palestinians, $3 billion annually in aid and armaments. But that is not happening. Nor is that going to happen any time soon.".... And what do you suppose the arab/palestinians would do with all that money? You think they would build real schools, hospitals, housing for the citizens or would they use the money to acquire better arms to kill more innocent Jewish people? It is the duty to allah of arab/muslims to kill Jews and that is what they will continue to do. You said...." Mind you, not all Palestinians think like the suicide bombers do. They think that suicide bombing is wrong but unfortunately they have no alternatives to offer."... Of course they have alternatives. They could make peace with Israel and let their people prosper. It is my understanding that arabs that live and work in Israel do very well. So could all the arabs from that area do well if they got rid of arafat the terrorist and all the nut ball religious muslim mullas that teach kids from birth that it is their duty to die for the cause. You said...." I am, therefore, not surprised they want to get even. Unfortunately for them, none of the Arab countries is a power to reckon with."..... You are saying it is unfortunate they don't have weapons of mass destruction to use against us. I hope that muslim fanatics never ever have nuke weapons as they would not hesitate to use them on the west. Remember these nut bars can hardly wait to die as they actually believe they will go to paradise for committing murder. How could you who lives in a country like Canada think it is unfortunate that these morons don't have the power to kill us? You said...." As regards Sept 11th, it is now made known the US actually had ample knowledge of the imminent attacks. But the US inexplicably failed to act in time to prevent the attacks. I won't go into the reasons here as it will certainly open a can of worms. "..... Some crazy muslims terrorists murder thousands of innocent people in the USA and you suggest that it is the fault of the victims. The responsibility for those mass murders is muslim terrorists and only muslim terrorist. I don't understand how someone like you can say things like that without feeling great shame. You said..." Mind you, not all Palestinians think like the suicide bombers do. They think that suicide bombing is wrong but unfortunately they have no alternatives to offer.".... And just how do you know what an arab/palestinian thinks. Do you have a link to this information I would be interested in seeing this info.