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To: marynell who wrote (86630)	6/8/2002 12:47:36 AM
From: E. Charters	Respond to of 116834

There is one thing not too many Moslems in many of their states seem to want to die for, (Is Afghanistan an exception or a model?) and that is to change their system to one that is more fair, humane and allows their people freedom of choice. Their autocrats seem to see all change to a more progressive system, inclusive of dissent, to be a slide to hell in a handbasket. Swift went over all these pretensions and moral mistakes of man in Gulliver's travels and pilloried the politics and religions of man with excellent insight. Any religion or system of government that does not allow people to make up their own minds freely as to participation is doomed in time to fail. One can well wonder what this time scale is for the abusive and repressive governments of Asia, since it would seem that their religion which people tend to see as their governmental system has flourished and expanded for 1300 years now. I still say that it is only a matter of time before we see change again. All the governments that exist today with their attendant dissension and instability are creations of post WW1 relaxation of colonialism and occupation. Their heritage does not stretch back for more than a few decades. As such their existence is not on such a firm footing. We in the west are largely to blame for the abominable and undemocratic conditions that exist in most of these nations today as we were the ones who ruled them as autocrats or interfered with their governments, which led to a weakened social and governmental systems. We exported tyranny in Asia as we did in Latin America. We planted the seed and now we reap the whirlwind. One of these days the great democratic nation will see fit to go into a nation it aids or occupies and teach democracy and responsible government in order see that the people become self determining in a sustainable way. It would be a first. EC<:-}

To: marynell who wrote (86630)	6/8/2002 1:54:44 AM
From: Richnorth	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116834

What I meant was that the Islam practiced in Malaysia was not extremist but moderate Islam. Needless to say, there were adulterous men and women. But I have not heard of or seen any women found guilty of adultery stoned to death. Even though that is in the Sharia, it was not practiced. Nor did any Moslems make any fuss about it at that time. But things are quite different now. The political opposition in Malaysia now wants Sharia Law to be applied to Moslem offenders. They are discussing it but I very doubt it would ever be applied. I read that, in Saudi Arabia 20 years ago, a boy's hand was amputated by the Sharia folks, after he had 'fessed up to having stolen some toys from his neighbor. Mind you, he 'fessed up only because his mother told him to do so. I was horrified! That was the first time I knew the Islam as practiced in Saudi Arabia was "medieval" extremist Islam. Stoning women to death for adultery was practiced by the Jews in Jesus' time. Jesus once said to a noisy crowd that had gathered to stone Mary Magdalen, "Let he that hath no sin among you cast the first stone." The crowd became silent and no one dared cast a stone! And Mary M. was saved!