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Politics : Palestine, facts and history -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: re3 who wrote (111)	6/11/2002 3:35:13 PM
From: GROUND ZERO™	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 770

retired, you're wasting your time discussing a topic with unschooled posters who happen by this thread, I'm also wasting my time here... these people have swallowed the propaganda hype of the Palestinian terrorists and now use it to formulate the basis of their thinking... it's truly unbelievable... maybe one day they'll snap out of it, but for them it may be too late... and I don't intend on wasting further time giving a primer in middle east politics, these unlearned people will have to find out on their own time... they certainly come across as stupid..... My Best Regards, GZ

To: re3 who wrote (111)	6/11/2002 8:17:35 PM
From: Thomas M.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 770

Are you conceding that the Palestinians are unpopular in their host countries in large part because of the brutal Israeli military offensives that accompany them? Bear in mind that Israel has always targeted civilians in its military operations, going all the way back to the pre-state era. <<< Noted Israeli military analyst Zeev Schiff interviewed Israeli General Mordechai Gur, and asked him about the reported practices of the Israeli army. A shocked Schiff gives his summary of Gur's response: "In South Lebanon we struck the civilian population consciously, because they deserved it . . .the importance of Gur's remarks is the admission that the Israeli Army has always struck civilian populations, purposely and consciously . . . the Army, he said, has never distinguished civilian [from military] targets . . . [but] purposely attacked civilian targets even when Israeli settlements had not been struck." >>> ("Towards A New Cold War" p.320) Tom

To: re3 who wrote (111)	6/12/2002 2:46:23 PM
From: Thomas M.	Respond to of 770

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The U.N. Security Council in January 1976, when the United States vetoed a resolution backed by Jordan, Syria, Egypt and the PLO, which called for a two-state diplomatic settlement in the terms of the international consensus, with territorial and security guarantees. On the rights of Israel, the proposal called for "appropriate arrangements...to guarantee...the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of all states in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries." Israel refused to attend the session. The Rabin government announced it would not negotiate with any Palestinians on any political issue and would not negotiate with the PLO even if it were to renounce terrorism and recognize Israel. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In 1977 the PLO issued a declaration calling for the establishment of "an independent national state in Palestine", rather than a "secular democratic state of Palestine". This same session included the election of a new PLO Executive Committee which notably excluded any representatives from the Rejection Front (a minority group which refused to recognize Israel). Rabin himself responded that "the only place the Israelis could meet the Palestinians guerillas was on the field of battle". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note that this offer is essentially asking Israel to obey international law (UN 242). This has been offered continuously by the Arabs for 25-30 years now. One instance was the 1981 Saudi Fahd Peace Plan. Israel's response to that plan was to call it a "peace offensive" and to send military fighter jets over Saudi oil fields as a threat. Tom

To: re3 who wrote (111)	6/12/2002 2:49:29 PM
From: Thomas M.	Respond to of 770

On Israel's unwillingness to accept Sadat's 1971 peace offer, General Haim Bar-Lev, a cabinet member in the Meir and Rabin governments: "I think that we could obtain a settlement on the basis of the earlier [pre-June 1967] borders. If I were persuaded that this is the maximum that we might obtain, I would say: agreed. But I think that it is not the maximum. I think that if we continue to hold out, we will obtain more." ("Towards A New Cold War" p.461)

To: re3 who wrote (111)	7/15/2002 1:26:44 AM
From: Thomas M.	Respond to of 770

they gave the p's an offer which was refused. Thousands of people dying because of this lie which you eagerly propagate. Don't sweat it though, plenty more bodies available. counterpunch.org