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Pastimes : MANIPULATION IS RAMPANT --- Can We Stop It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dave Gore who wrote (400)	6/19/2002 10:52:23 AM
From: Dave Gore	Respond to of 589

Market Maker Manipulation Part 1 Is this guy a bit radical? Perhaps not if you're talking about the OTC market, but as a general rule, yes. Nevertheless these practices do happen and most of us vets have seen them. As I have said before, many Market Makers play it fair most of the time. Normally it is in their best interest to do so. However, when they do conspire to fix prices or trade their own accounts first (i.e. when they see massive buys or sells coming in, as Knight is alleged to have done recently) they need to be exposed. Probably worth a quick read if you are a daytrader or scalper. He does discuss a lot on several pages and parts. trading-places.net PART 1 Market maker firms like Merrill Lynch - MLCO, Soloman Smith Barney - SALB, Goldman Sachs - GSCO, Herzog - HRZG, Troster Singer - TSCO, and Nite Securities - NITE, just to name a few of the hundreds of active market markers, as mentioned earlier, are notorious at playing games. The perform "Head Fakes", Shake outs, Fading, and all in all, just cause general chaos when they choose to, which seems to be just about most of the time. Many traders and their trading accounts have succumb to the antics of these firms. As a day trader, keep one thing in mind. Day trading is war. It is a never ending battle against some of the biggest trading houses in the world. I want to reiterate that market makers want your money, and will stop at nothing. They will do whatever it takes to influence you into making buy and sell decisions. Your number one best advantage is to learn and understand the movements of the market makers, so that at least you will have a basic fighting chance to maneuver your way through the never ending maze of volatility created by their actions. Level II is purely suppy and demand based. You have buyers and sellers. The market maker's job is to simply fill customer's orders, and make profit for their firm. Once you learn and understand how market makers work, and how they think, your will have a greater opportunity to capitalize on their movements. One of the important things to remember is to try to think like a market maker. Then when you can do that, then you will understand a concept I refer to as "Painting" the market maker. To "paint" the market maker is to capitalize on his actions, or rather, do as the market maker does, by copying his actions. To do this, you must first learn and recognize his intentions.

To: Dave Gore who wrote (400)	6/19/2002 4:24:20 PM
From: LPS5	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 589

ROFL!!!! Dave, are you suggesting that these sites are authoritative?! The very fact that these sites, and not sites of regulators, academic institutions, legitimate consumer watchdog groups, and the like are the most popular by hits hints to me at the true depth of knowledge the loudest whiners have of the markets. Markets, I'd add, that they ever-so-willingly threw their monies into and have subsequently refused to take personal responsibility for the outcome of. Among them: www.stopmmmanipulation.com www.streetforce.com www.willywizard.com www.greatstockpicks.com ...and, on the CBOT site, you show a link regarding New Zealand derivative warrants. And, yes, an NASDR interpretive letter...but one which that cites "market manipulation," not "market maker manipulation"! LOL!!! As I've said before, this post underscores: you don't need me or anyone to "attempt to bring discredit" upon the various absurdities, myths, and preconceived notions you're repeatedly babbling about. Your posts do a thorough enough job. And this is exactly why it's crucial that I post my anti-interventionist opinions here; because, apparently using these specious grounds as evidence, you've repeatedly expressed your willingness to eagerly trade away liberties in return for the comfort which higher degrees of governmental paternalism seem to represent. Which would be fine, except that you'd infringe on mine and everyone else's in the process. LP.