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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Win Smith who wrote (32685)	6/19/2002 6:47:22 PM
From: paul_philp	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

As for the internet and health care, there's always Jim Clark's Healtheon experience as a nice little bubble stock example. Please don't insult my intelligence. EOD. Paul

To: Win Smith who wrote (32685)	6/19/2002 7:17:41 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Edit - OT If this annoys anyone I am willing to move the conversation elswhere or drop it. Don't look to the US for "efficiency" in health care. I'll use your source because it presumably is one that you would accept. However I am not not saying that I accept the stats as accurate (and I am also not challenging their accuracy at this time) korpios.org United States 13.4% Canada 10.0 Finland 9.1 Sweden 8.6 United States $132,300 Denmark 50,585 Finland 42,943 Sweden 25,768 (date not availabe at your link for Canada) Lets look at the top 4 spenders as a percentage of GDP. The US lets doctors earn a fair market rate for their services. The other countries don't spend as many dollars (or whatever the local currency is called) but that is not because they are more efficent. The cost is just past from the patient or the government to the doctor. Sweden is a particuarly strong example of this. Most of the other stats have no real connection with medical efficancy. I'll address those that might reasonably be seen as having such a connection. Life Expectancy - I think this really has more to do with cultural and lifestyle factors such as diet, with non medical political/social issues such as inequality of wealth, and perhaps to an extent with genetic factors. Infant Mortality Rate - Pretty much the same as with life expectancy. Also the issue has allready been addresed by others. Many women and unborn children lack for prenatal care not because it is not available but because they don't take advantage of it. Also I understand that some deaths of premature babies that count against the infant mortality rate in the US would not count against it in some other countries offical statistics. Death rate of 1-to-4 year olds - This is the best evidence that I have seen presented so far in your link. However I would like to see the figures adjusted to take in to account economic and other factors that are not direcly related to the varius countries medical systems. Death rate of 15-to-24 year old The US has a much higher murder rate then most other countries. Your source notes this but doesn't actually discount murders from the figures. I would also imagine that the US has a higher accident rate with a larger percentage of our transportation being by car instead of rail which is usually safer. And we tend to have less healthy diet and exercise habits. Premature Death Largely a different way of stateing the other death rates. My response to them would also apply here. Percent of people with normal body mass: Mostly lifestyle choices, and cultural factors are involved here. Genetics might be involved a bit. This isn't evidence of a less efficient health care system, in fact its ammunition to use against the other bits of evidence on this site. Americans are fatter because they eat more and exercise less. This increases their chance to die prematurely. Tim