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To: Neocon who wrote (16159)	6/30/2002 1:22:08 PM
From: Constant Reader	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

That might have been true ten or twenty years ago, but I can't imagine anything further from the truth these days, with crime rates at or near 30-year lows, conviction rates at or near all-time highs, prison populations bulging and sentences longer.

To: Neocon who wrote (16159)	6/30/2002 1:27:11 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

Barry Goldwater was concerned about expansion of state police powers. Hardly a libertarian. He was known as "Mr. Conservative." And the fact that an idea is libertarian does not mean it is wrong. Defending the country is a conservative goal. How about defending the Constitution? The thing those officers and men take their oath to do? The Nazis and Communists defended their countries. Hardly a laudable goal in and of itself. Supporting the police is much more a conservative attitude When the police assert a right to search without warrant or detain with trial or deny access to legal counsel? You're welcome to such conservatism. We have bent way over, beyond Constitutional requirements, in order to safeguard the individual against government intrusion. Individual rights are what this country is ABOUT, Neo. Maybe they should get high priority treatment. the citizenry is losing confidence in the criminal justice system and its ability to maintain public order....... Yes, the world is always going to the dogs. Or changing, at least.