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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (52575)	7/7/2002 10:35:03 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

There is a rational explanation (or at least plausible explanation) for the behavior if you look at the individual organism as also part of a larger group organism. This is the general reason researchers use to explain animal altruism. It is something that is wired in, and seems to be in many species. I don't mean "rational" for the individual, but it is rational for the species. Unless you think those animals have some sort of religious reason for sacrificing themselves (which of course some people do), it is likely that there may be another sort of answer. endeavor.med.nyu.edu cogprints.soton.ac.uk infres.enst.fr nsf.gov

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (52575)	7/7/2002 11:41:01 AM
From: Lane3	Respond to of 82486

So I would not argue that I (believer) have any better reason than you (non-believer) to perform the ultimate act of altruism. I agree that there is no better reason for the believer. My point is rather that the sacrifice is smaller because the believer gets an afterlife and the non-believer doesn't so the non-believer is giving up more. I don't know about you, but I personally don't think we are arguing here. I don't think we're arguing either. I engaged only to make sure we were all clear on one of my hobby horses, which is that, while one can find honor and courage and nobility of act via a religion, if that is the basis of one's world view, one can also find them in other ways if it isn't. I was just confirming that you could 'get your head around' that.

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (52575)	7/8/2002 8:20:44 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

You make a brave effort to link self-sacrifice with rationality and reason ... I don't think the issue is does self-sacrifice link with rationality and reason. The issue you seem to be concerned about is does it link with not believing in God. Besides the observation that people who don't believe in God can be and are willing to sacrifice themselves in some situations, I would say that in most cases the act probably links better to emotion than to rationality, whether or not the person committing the sacrifice believes in God, then it does with logic. Tim