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To: wanna_bmw who wrote (167599)	7/8/2002 1:54:49 PM
From: fingolfen	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 186894

"One Nation". "Indivisible". "Liberty". "Justice for All". I don't see the difference if these words are "Under God", or "Under Alla", or even "Under the Sun". I like the One Nation... Liberty... for ALL... but what I'm seeing here isn't liberty "for ALL" but rather the "tyranny of the majority." There is a lot of talk about "offended minorities", and a equal amount of brushing off their concerns. That hardly sounds like "for ALL" based on my understanding of English as defined in the Oxford English Dictionary. Examining the issue a bit more closely, "under God" implies any patriarchal based monotheistic system. "Endowed by their Creator" does not have quite the same narrow focus. The addition of "under God" to the pledge was one of the most blatant cases where the U.S. government has used religion as a whip to keep the masses in line... in this case during the Red Scare. IMHO it was a flagrant violation of separation of Church and State, and worse, a flagrant violation of the trust placed in our elected representatives. I was raised Christian... I still consider myself to be Christian... and as a product of a conservative Christian upbringing, any kid in Sunday School is taught what "under God really means" in this context (in short that it amounts to establishment). So let's stop dancing around the semantics and call a spade a spade. Is it essentially establishment? Yes. CNN has also run polls asking "do you agree with separation of Church and State", and if memory serves 30-40% of Americans didn't! Separation of Church and State is one of the cornerstones of our system, yet a third of the country doesn't believe in it. I see that as troubling, because it means roughly that number of people are working to circumvent or repeal that separation...

To: wanna_bmw who wrote (167599)	7/8/2002 3:13:52 PM
From: Bill Jackson	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 186894

wbmw, pity the poor kid who chooses not to say it. Peer pressure in young groups is very powerful. It is in fact a form of bullying that is authorised by the system. Kids who do not say the pledge get bullied. That trains them into the bullying mindset....out the door goes freedom of thought and expression. It is pure coercion to make the kids adhere to the norm. I wonder why they do not say it before each morning class at Harvard or MIT? Because no adult would stand for it Bill