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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: GTC Trader who wrote (12965)7/14/2002 10:31:37 AM
From: Frederick Smart  Respond to of 28931
 
GTC Trader....

>>I can be a Christian, or I can create the type of god that I want to worship, but it is impossible to do both.

<< ...that is a very dangerous doctrine you are promoting , and false and breeds nothing but more hatred fellow. >>

The Bible is NOT "a very dangerous doctrine" and does not breed hate. True Christians will obey the teachings of the Bible and follow the example of Christ. They will love their enemies and pray for those who persecute them. They will "turn the other cheek" when people take advantage of them. They will repay evil with good. Anyone who does not respond in love according to the example of Christ is simply not a Christian. (Matthew 5:38-48) Church history is filled with countless examples of this. "Foxe's Book of Martyrs" is an excellent place to start. You can buy it on Amazon for less than ten bucks, or just read 12 pages of it online at no charge.

amazon.com.

Christians and Jews don't strap explosives around their waists and blow up innocent, peace-loving Muslims. Beliefs dictate actions, and the Judeo-Christian ethics taught in the Bible promote loving your neighbor as yourself, and sacrificing yourself out of love for others, not killing or even hating people who don't believe what you believe. (Matthew 5:21-22) While it is true that many violent men (including several popes in the Catholic church) have murdered millions of innocent people over the years and blamed it on God, for the most part they were driven by lust for power and wealth, and seeking after their own selfish desires in direct conflict with the Bible. They may have claimed to be Christians, but Jesus said that we would know people by their "fruit", meaning it is not what they SAY, but what they DO that reveals if a person is truly a Christian. (Matthew 7)

Best regards - Ken>>

Your response to Mars is filled to the brim and overflowing with love!! A true example for others to learn from.

We are ALL connected to our Lord Jesus Christ through his unconditional energy, light and love which overflows with infinite mercy and forgiveness!

Thanks for sharing!

Peace and God Bless!!

119293!!



To: GTC Trader who wrote (12965)7/14/2002 2:57:43 PM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 28931
 
You are correct that the Judeo-Christian Bible is indeed filled with much atrocity, strife, and war. It documents human history from the very beginning of creation through the first century A.D

you are kidding right GTC ?

Please be serious for a moment , and consider what you have just said . There were civilizations to the east and west of palestine and other Edens ... and other "river valleys".
We do not use the Bible as "History" these days , except in the most fanciful of situations. Even Jewish scholars accept this predominately . Maybe in rural America... they still do... but not in most every major University on the planet<G>

Most Biblical scholars today now accept that the books of Moses were not written by Moses , and in fact much later . That Moses ever existed , or that he spoke to God at all is in my mind in very extreme doubt ....they cannot even find the mountain.

Through the nation of Israel, and through its history, God has delivered His message to all of mankind. He promised a Redeemer to offer salvation for our sins and the New Testament documents the fulfillment of this promise in Jesus Christ.

We know that the Jews were some of the most irrascible and malcontented rude and warlike people/barbarians of the region , and by far the most superstitious , practicing horrendous animal sacrifices in their temples and rituals . Right up to the days of Jesus and in the "great Temple " of Jerusalem . They managed to kill and slaughter 10,000 goats and sheep in one day for this tribal god jehova.

What do you think they were doing in the Temple in Jerusalem? And how did those priests get so rich ?
Anyways I suggest you go back and read Isaiah's chastisements of his tribe and then check
back with me .

This all new news to you ? Well take off the rose colored glasses for a minute , and consider how every other tribe , or the egyptians , or the the other peoples of the valley were always the wicked and depraved ones .

And then ask yourself --->who wrote these "books" ? And stories. The bible as "history" . even a history of the Jews themselves , leaves much , much to be desired .

The ploy of a tribe to use a diety & protector to rationalize and justify a claim to the land is , to use the proverbial expression

" old as the hills, and twice as dusty "

you'll pardon my Roman , Greek and Occidental skepticism ...



To: GTC Trader who wrote (12965)7/14/2002 3:06:23 PM
From: 2MAR$  Respond to of 28931
 
Here's some Isaiah to read for reflection ....

That this tribe was God's chosen people , is pure religious propaganda ...but after all they wrote the stories didn;t they . The Navajo Indians were better suited for that title than the Jews .

ISA 1:7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

ISA 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

ISA 1:9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

ISA 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

ISA 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

ISA 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

ISA 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

ISA 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

ISA 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

ISA 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

ISA 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

ISA 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

ISA 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

ISA 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

ISA 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

ISA 1:22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:

ISA 1:23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.

ISA 1:24 Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:

ISA 1:25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and



To: GTC Trader who wrote (12965)7/14/2002 3:06:23 PM
From: 2MAR$  Respond to of 28931
 
Here's some Isaiah to read for reflection ....

Note : That this tribe were God's chosen people , is pure religious propaganda ...but after all --->it was they who wrote the stories in their books didn't they ? What would you expect them to write ? All human beings have this tendency to write themselves into the creation , but the Jews outdid everybody on this account , and were extremeist in this particular early religious zealousness . If you look at Islam , you can see the same tendency to ascendency in that religion as well. Seems to be in the "blood " of the tribes all over that region , to be so blessed <G>

** Maybe we could call it a little touch of the ----> " Alpha Male Syndrome " perhaps ? ;-)

All is vanity ...all is vanity . There are some appealing stories and there are some not so appealing . But the Chosen people of God idea , is pure fantasy GTC .

The Navajo Indians had as much appreciation of life , and in some cases were even more just and wise than the
ancient Jews.

regards

ISA 1:7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

ISA 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

ISA 1:9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

ISA 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

ISA 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

ISA 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

ISA 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

ISA 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

ISA 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

ISA 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

ISA 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

ISA 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

ISA 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

ISA 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

ISA 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

ISA 1:22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:

ISA 1:23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.

ISA 1:24 Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:

ISA 1:25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and



To: GTC Trader who wrote (12965)7/14/2002 3:30:51 PM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 28931
 
have no doubt that the Buddhist scriptures are beautiful and well-written. They no doubt contain many virtuous and honorable thoughts. If you prefer not to reply, that is fine, but if you do reply, I would be interested in your thoughts on a couple questions about the Buddhist scripture

Not enough time to answer all those questions now ....

Yet leave you with the thought that it was Buddha who first gave the " Sermon on the Mountain " 500 yrs before Jesus , and many more sermons besides this ...on Love , on Meditation , on Non-violence , on Charity ,
on Compassion.

We know this , because one of the most enlightened and advanced and largest Empires of the ancient world in India , the --->Ashokan Empire ,was inspired by Buddha's teachings . This following the push of Alexander the Macedonian to that region and withdrawal.

Does your Bible say anything of that Continent to the east ?
Or of China ? Or of South Asia ?

No it doesn't . So how can you say that the Bible is --->the history of the world from the dawn of creation of the world and all it's peoples ? No... the Bible is just one tribal history of one smal tribe of human beings that lived around an area of the Jordan River Basin . And that is all it is .

very strange form of tunnel vision ...there are 2 1/2 to 3 Billion people on the earth that are not Christian or Islamic , thank you.

regards

Mars



To: GTC Trader who wrote (12965)7/15/2002 4:16:36 AM
From: Mitch Blevins  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 28931
 
>>I would be interested in your thoughts on a couple questions about the Buddhist scriptures:<<

I have not read all of their scriptures (the complete canon takes over 5 linear feet of shelf space), but have read a good chunk. I'd be happy to give you my layman's, non-expert view...

Note that I am speaking only to the Theravadan school of buddhism, and I know very little about later schools such as Mahayana, Zen, etc.

>>1. What does it teach about the character and nature of God?<<

Which God? There are many god's in the classical buddhist cosmology. There is even a creator god (Pajapati) who deluded himself into believing that he created everything. But no god in any of the heavens is eternal or all-powerful. They are bound by the cycle of kamma into samsaric existence.

>>2. What does it teach about sin and man's relationship to God?<<

The closest thing to sin would be "unskillfulness" or "unwholesomeness". Thoughts, speech, and acts of this character would cause rebirth in a lower state (poor and ugly person, animal, or even one of the hells). This is seen as a natural consequence of such acts and not punishment or judgement.

>>3. What does it offer as a means of salvation?<<

There are two different concepts of salvation...

Kammic salvation would be rebirth in one of the higher realms (heavens, if you will...). It is caused by the opposite of unskillful or unwholesome acts. These skillful/wholesome acts would be similar to those espoused by Christians or many other religions (non-violence, non-greed, non-hatred, etc). Existence in these heavens are long-lasting, but not permanent. Eventually you will fall back to earth and start again in the samsaric cycle.

Nibbanic salvation (or Nirvana) is a release from the cycle of samsara. It is the cessation of all suffering. Many outsiders have characterized Nibbana polemically as total annihilation, but this is not the correct understanding, and is specifically refuted in the scriptures. An understanding of Nibbana is not something you can get from reading a blurb or a paper on buddhism.

Nibbana is obtained through human effort. Specifically, following the eightfold path, which can be read about in any introductory paper on buddhism.

>>4. Why do you believe that it is true and of divine origin?
<<


"Divine" does not apply. Most of the suttas are simply recordings of talks the Buddha gave, passed on through an oral tradition. Although there are some suttas which record discussions that the Buddha had with various Gods or the devil (Mara).

The age and transmission method (oral) are fairly certain, and I believe that the scriptures are based on an actual historical figure just like I believe the New Testament is based on an actual historical figure. But I doubt the accuracy of some of the more fantastic/supernatural feats of the Buddha, just as I doubt the miracle stories in the Bible.

---

Your questions only make sense when interpreted through a Christian cultural lens. You select a set of key doctinal positions about which you are certain you hold the correct answers. This way, you can dismiss other scripture as "wrong" when it deviates from your positions, without the hassle of trying to learn about them on their own level. It would be similar to a Buddhist asking you to answer three questions as they would be answered in the Christian scriptures:

1) Is all existence permanent or impermanent?
2) Is what is impermanent satisfactory or unsatisfactory?
3) Is what is impermanent and unsatisfactory something that should be clung to as "Me" or "Mine"?

An incorrect or a "it depends..." answer to any of the above questions would cause most Theravadan buddhists to regard you as a deluded fool, blinded by ignorance. Yet most Christians would consider the above questions conditional or irrelevant.

So can you see how questions about the "character and nature of God" might be irrelevant to people from other perspectives?