Hello Maurice, Forget the weekend BBQ. Let us just do a weekday pot roast:0)
<<what do you mean, Asian values?>>
… Class is in session, before you run off on your weekend engagement. Revisionism is the selected topic of this night.
By Asian values, you are correct, I actually meant traditional values of the old world that ought to be used to guide us forward, steadily. These values have proven their long-term worth, through repeated cycles of politics and economies, allowed their practitioners of every flavor (yes, the Jewish folks and Italians too, along with some Germans, together with some French) to survive, and indeed prosper, under conditions less than ideal. My generalizations are deliberate, targeting WSJ, IHT, NYT and whoever agreed with them back in 1998:
Message 15134944
Without any effort at prioritization, the values are, but not limited to:
(a) Respect and care for family, clan, friends, village, town, city, county, humans, nature, …
(b) Education
(c) Enterprise
(d) Diligence
(e) Thrift
(f) Endurance
(g) Understanding
(h) Meritocracy
(i) Respect for the betters, and obedience to the wiser
(j) Non-interference
(k) Seek simple truth from complicated facts
<<The dominant Asian value has been the medieval European approach of servitude to the ruling class>>
… Not true and you know it to be not true. If true, then it would be like saying the dominant European approach is to burn, steal, rape, and pillage, which is an equally silly POV.
If you meant Confucianism, then yes, (un-PC, and I apologize to my elder:0) as in servitude to the ruling class that got to be the ruling class through the application of traditional values (a) through (k). The system is not perfect, and sometimes the Hitlers, Ken Lays and Jeff Skillings of Asia get to rule in Asia as well, just not by the one man one vote system, because, just perhaps, the Asians do not get fooled that easily:0)
As far as I am concerned, as long as the ruling class rose to the level by way of meritocracy and takes care of the proletariats and peasants, then they should continue to rule, taken care of by the ruled, until not, then revolution, or election by force of arms, which tends to be more cleansing than elections, and thus perhaps more Darwinian by civilization, and its long-term survival. No right or wrong, and even if so, just is.
Revolution is the ultimate in merito-cratic contest where everybody must ‘vote’ (you know, ‘either with me or against me’). I checked my gene lattice, and yes, I do see revolution on the lower left hand corner, hidden next to fun and laughter, suppressed by the two most of the time, thankfully.
Would I rule? Nope, would not bother. Would I revolt, probably, but by getting someone else to do it first;0)
I believe the key to a properly working democracy is education. Absent that, the result is then choosing the ruling class by fiddled and televised psycho-messaging and rigged electioneering and jammed political machines, financed by rich folks who may have gotten that way by means we all are familiar with from reading the recent newspapers.
No system is perfect. On the one hand we have Singapore dictatorship and Swiss democracy, and the other, Philippines democracy and Russian something or other. The final chapter has not yet been written.
I would not choose to live in a Singapore dictatorship arrangement or a Russian something or other, whereas I would choose to live in the Philippines, had it not been for WAT-WOT-&-whatnot. Most folks do not get to choose, and some folks choose wrong. Just is.
<<The individual as a mere cog in the proletariat serving the state>>
… Maurice, stop, think about it for one clarifying moment and realize that this is the way, the only way, everywhere, for all times, forever, except for the fortunate few, everywhere. Just is, even if you do not know it.
<<The British invented freedom, habeas corpus and all that good stuff and it was British values which made Hong Kong the economic powerhouse it became. Americans adopted the best of the British freedom concepts and that has stood them in good stead, despite constant erosion of those original liberties into the current parlous state>>
… If so, then all places where the British stayed for a bit, including Nigeria, India, Trinidad and Tobago, Canada and Massachusetts, should be just like Hong Kong. Seeking simple truth from complicated facts results in null set, except for Hong Kong and Singapore.
… OTOH, the Chinese do OK in the barren wasteland of Siberia, under Russian rules, and in the heat of Africa, under no rule. Do you begin to see the common denominator and the vague outlines of the simple truth? Well, just is.
But, Jay, the Chinese had not done so hot in the last two hundred odd years! Well, Jay, it was a secular correction and retracement, setting up for a renewed bull market.
As for the British having invented a lot, unfortunately, but just is, more than << freedom, habeas corpus and all that good stuff>>, and they did so for themselves, to try to preempt the possibility of armed revolt, because they did not have enough of their own people to enlist as soldiers, as they robbed the natives everywhere. The success is astounding, so far, but now we are, as far as Britain is concerned, looking at the other side of peaked graph.
Do not confuse political issues and geo-political facts with right and wrong, good and bad. They just are, and then not.
<<I guess you have noticed that Hong Kong is not so pre-eminent now that China has got it firmly back in the grip of Asian values>>
… I have noticed that China has, in fact, saved Hong Kong from declining more than it otherwise would have, relative only to China, and risen relatively against all its neighbors, and even maintaining its economic freedom index relative to, oh, all nation-states, bar none, full stop. Once more, Maurice, seek simple truth from complicated facts.
<<Chairman Mao, … Jiang Zemin>>
… Meritocracy works, all the time, but sometimes too well, impacted by external factors and internal necessities, under emergency conditions, enabling the really talented to take over at times, and scoundrels at other times, and sometimes, they are one. Sadly, alas, they sometimes have no patience for the lesser.
Eh, change the names of people, and see that my paragraph works still, always, because it just is.
<<Japan adopted, to some extent, democracy, education, capitalism and other western values. So did South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore>>
… Think back Maurice, and seek the simple truth. The common denominator that is responsible for these nations’ rise was not democracy, but above mention values (a) through (k). Democracy, in whatever deformed variety, came into the picture rather late in the game, and sometimes just in time for the fall from the rise, and some other times expedited the fall.
Think out of the box for a moment and realize that Japan’s later success is in large part due to its earlier weakness in unable to withstand the ships that entered Tokyo Bay for more than two days. History works in cycles of strength and weakness, without fail.
<<India kept the old-style western Marxist socialist bureaucratic values with an overlay of religious rule and it shows>>
… Just where did they learn that from? Only the British were there, along with some Portuguese. And why not so in the cases of Singapore, Hong Kong, … Japan, etc? Confucianism? Maybe, perhaps, probably?
<<China is trying to repeat the old-style mode of success, which will work very well, up to a point>>
… China is actually charting a third way, and thus so worrying to some, lest they succeed. I do not know that they will succeed. We will see.
I believe any comparison of what is happening in China today with anything that had happened anywhere else at any other time may result in underestimation of what is taking place, and prolong a serious lack of appreciation for what is taking place there, as in not seeking simple truth from complicated facts. Think Renaissance, with a capital R, materially and spiritually.
Materially, I believe China will reach and overtake Japan’s per capita GDP during this historic cycle, and at that point, when reached, will be awesome, and without parallel. After that, values will hopefully show, for the sake of the world.
My hope is that this time the ships of Sinbad will not be mothballed, and the world will be a kinder place, based on, oh, you know, the important values:
oceansonline.com
and material things:
spacedaily.com
<<But already, they are self-limited because they have a chimpoid dominance hierarchy approach which will not work in the polyglot 21st century world of cyberspace and mind to mind exchange of value>>
… A prediction, based on my observations, is that the folks transforming China now will do much better then the folks that transformed Silicon Valley. The material aspects can and is being duplicated, unavoidably and perhaps unfortunately, but the extra oomph will be derived from values, because …
<<But your point is correct - those fundamental values of humanity will beat the old-style chimpoid political cronyism boss-style, Aztec speculation, TV-numbing, and thinking by slogan and sound-bite>>
… even if … <<it'll be a long and arduous battle>>
I am an optimist. I do not actually believe 1.odd billion folks can be misruled for sustained period, especially in an age of photons and whatnot. I think, in big picture stock-speak, China is the next big secular abracadabra, and the world will be a better place as a result. I sometimes have my doubts and thus fear, and so think about Tobago.
China going rogue would be bad news for the entire world, including China. Of course, the same can be said for all continent sized nation-states.
<<Meanwhile, cheap US$ is entirely sensible. Interest rates are a function of demand for the money and you and I are not surprised that I am NOT keen to borrow a big heap right now, therefore the price of money must fall until it gets surging around again instead of hiding under mattresses>>
Maurice, again, interest rate must rise, so as to achieve honest cleansing, else the money is hiding because Al is still in charge, and it will not come out as long as Al remains in charge and keeps interest rate artificially low.
<<Uncle Al will keep the squeeze on until those, like me, holding money, figure out that they had better go and buy something>>
… precisely, and that something is a thing, not a piece of fiber with a claim on a few photons.
<<Oh, speak of the devil, Jay has gone shopping: <BTW, I have put in an order to buy one platinum watch worth of this company on the London market: >>
… Maurice, you have not been paying attention. I had been shopping all along, first for gold and gold shares, and then for Euro, CHF, and AUD. Now, since you started paying attention, for Zimbabwe Platinum ruled by Mugabe, and Hub Power dictated over by Musharraf, along with Verizon and Comcast, both telecosm plays beholden to Bush & Co.
Chugs, Jay |
