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To: Jamey who wrote (87961)	7/18/2002 4:08:42 AM
From: d:oug	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116763

Message from Santiago: ... God help us all. Santi . bBut, i have no God. . Towards those whom i'am friends with, and they have a religion, i will show respect in a manner that takes the form of me keeping my distance, as in while i know the nature of their beliefs to accept the existance of a supernatural entity for them to obtain laws, guidance and a reason for life, i agree in general with the words of Rarebird that expressed a direction taken that includes only our present living experiences of that which actually happens in our awareness of life on earth as that to hold as that looked upon to obtain what life is. . One step removed from life on Earth for us all, is that of dreams, of sandwhich a few can transport a real life awareness real time into the dream to interact inside very narrow and shallow limits, but to interact with that which does not exist, and transpose onto another like a transport of goods & services, is illogical. . Quite ok to speak your mind to express your religious beliefs, and even ok to ask others to join your religion or attend a place where your religion is taught or centered, but to "God help us all." speaks as if your religion exists, and its the only religion that exists. . Question of proof is useless, your religion is not of this life and all past and present contacts are "man made." . bBut, i have no God. (or) Can there be a God, even one for me that created me and left messages for me using events and the spoken words and actions of His people that lived throughout history? Sure, no problem as that is one of the possibilities possible for me to encounter upon death. (so) Do i need acceptance of a God to ready myself before death. Nope, and thats a BIG nope. If my thoughts generated are unkind and hurtful towards others, and i surpress them for fear of Hell, sorry, i'am still going to Hell. d:oug

To: Jamey who wrote (87961)	7/18/2002 8:03:10 PM
From: Eclectus	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116763

Amen! Eclectus

To: Jamey who wrote (87961)	7/19/2002 9:54:02 PM
From: IngotWeTrust	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 116763

Hey, Santi and Electus...let's reduce the "All of America Are Reprobates" rhetoric, okay? This state of the nation is a bunch of crap generalities, whether it is Ellen Degeneres saying it or Jerry Falwell saying it or Sheik Kalhfani saying it. The great nation is made up of individuals. And the "state of this nation" is not a determined by the state of individual low life despicables all gathered in one giant football stadium where we can point and say, there "they are." This nation is P R I M A R I L Y made up of good guys and gals, with morals and with consciences. To the best of my knowledge, I'm not part of any mass retribution action by some gigantic and judgemental "GOD" whom Jerry Farwell venerates. And we STILL outnumber the Avila's, the Polly Klaas murderer, and the Dalmers, and the pedophilic Catholic priests at last count! So, before flushing the toilet on America and flipping the flushing handle a second time just for good measure, don't throw out the good guys with Falwells "baptismal water"...We've got 345 DEAD NEW YORK FIREMAN that alone, outnumber the nasties currently hogging the news, be it corporate CEOs or Meg Whitman wannabes. SHEESH! g_t