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Pastimes : Clown-Free Zone... sorry, no clowns allowed -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Terry Maloney who wrote (184052)	7/27/2002 8:06:12 PM
From: smolejv@gmx.net	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

one Nation under Canada;? just joking, as always (Oh, Canada... my sex symbol is Ann of Green Gables)

To: Terry Maloney who wrote (184052)	7/28/2002 2:28:42 AM
From: patron_anejo_por_favor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

<<Patron, misquoting someone or other, 'Socialism is the worst form of government except for all the rest'>> Yeh, but Americans just don't "do" socialism well...taxes go up, and it all ends up in some congressional (or presidential) cronies pocket....<NG>

To: Terry Maloney who wrote (184052)	7/28/2002 1:42:18 PM
From: Oblomov	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Socialism isn't a form of government. It is an economic system imposed by government. Per Marx, it is the state ownership of the means of production. Welfare statism is therefore not socialism per se, but the intrusions that it necessitates into the pocketbooks (and bedrooms) of the public are an affront to any idea of government founded on individual liberty. The confusion results from the fact that the very people who proposed welfare statism (such as FDR, Truman, Johnson, and Nixon) were those who engaged in the socialization of the economy using such techniques as price controls, governement seizure of industries, and other "command economy" devices. This is not to say that we, as a society, should not care for the disabled, ill, or indigent. Only that we have not sufficiently weighed the costs and benefits of doing this through the instrument of the federal government. Churches and Mutual Aid societies were the primary souce of charity prior to the government takeover of that industry. But charity implies that one owes a spiritual debt in return for its receipt, whereas welfare does not. So, it's no surprise that welfare is more popular among its recipients, or among the masses who think that liberty means "having no obligations". The quote, by the way, was Winston Churchill's: "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others." Democracy is, of course, a form of government.