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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (36121)	8/6/2002 1:47:49 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

those who believe all Saudis to be enemies. I am not ready to "pull a Sherman," and start a chorus of "The only good Saudi." However, we know that the men and money for Al Queda started with Saudi Arabia, and that the culture there is hostile to us. It is now obvious, with the demise of Communism, that the major worldwide threat to Western Civ comes from the Muslim Culture. However,we are too "PC" to discuss it openly. You can see it in our refusal to "profile" them on airplane check ins. You are called a "racist" if you discuss it. I am really afraid it is going to take another attack on this country to make people wake up to the threat. I am reading "Military Misfortunes" at the moment, which details the failure of various war time strategies. The one that interests me the most is our failure, in the first six months after Pearl Harbor, to Convoy and stop the sinking of our ships on the East Coast. In spite of the shock of Pearl, we, as an institution, just could not face up to what needed to be done. As a result, we suffered much more damage from the U-Boat attacks than we did at Pearl. I think we are suffering from the same institutional failure now.

To: Ilaine who wrote (36121)	8/6/2002 1:54:11 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

To me it makes as little sense as condemning all Americans for the beliefs of (pick one: KKK, Black Panthers, neoNazis, Democrats, Republicans, Californians, whatever turns you off.) Well if you picked Democrats and Republicans, you might have a point, as they represent a majority of Americans. Part of the problem is, that until you read the Arab press (at least what's available in English or translation), you have little idea what an alternate universe the Arabs are living in, mentally speaking. The name of the game is preserving pride and face in a geopolitical system that has long been in the process of damaging both. Denial really is a river in Egypt. Recommended reading for macabre amusement: www.arabnews.com (the same site that had the David Duke article). Consider as you read that this site is in English and represents opinions that official Saudi Arabia wants the west to see. Also good, Al-Ahram weekly, and anything memri.org prints.

To: Ilaine who wrote (36121)	8/6/2002 3:39:27 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

To me it makes as little sense as condemning all Americans for the beliefs I contend that if the Saudi regime is merely a pleasant "facade" for an extremist society where power is wielded primarily by the religious scholars, we have to look behind that facade and see the true power brokers in the Saudi society. They are the enemies of the US because they support and advocate the use of brutal suicide bombings against civilians as a means of carrying out their political visions. The US equivalent would be when Christian Fundamentalist advocating waging a brutally violent crusade against Muslims around the world, while our government would consist of Al Gore or Bill Clinton. They would place the "friendly face" upon the US image to the Arabs, while at a grass roots level, Christian Fundamentalists would be pressing our leaders to support their "crusade" in other countries. I could even take this one more step and say that it would require Christian Fundamentalists raising a cadre of "Templar Knights" to wage crusade and guard the holy land against Muslim incursions. Knights who would be fearless militant "monks" prepared to die for their cause. That's the difference, IMO. We may have extremist groups at work in the US. But few of them have sufficient power and influence over the government where the leadership is afraid of being overthrown by them. And it would require a major move by reactionaries to match the intensity we are seeing with the Muslem Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah, and other extremist groups. This is where I believe it's relevant to say that the Saudis are our enemy... They are, in fact, puppets who are being threatened by their own internal power brokers who they are unwilling, or unable, to confront. Thus, it's just a matter of time until the House of Saud falls, either due to internal revolution from the Islamists, or from external sources such as the US, recognizing that the Saudi royalty are protecting the advocates and perpetrators of 9/11 and other acts of terror. Hawk