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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (39643)	8/23/2002 8:54:06 PM
From: kumar	Respond to of 281500

<It is approved up in Muslim Culture. .... The worst problem in the world with treatment of females is among those who follow the Muslim Religion. > IMO, dont blame a religion because some who claim to practice it, abuse it. cheers, kumar

To: LindyBill who wrote (39643)	8/24/2002 6:36:28 PM
From: arun gera	Respond to of 281500

>It is approved up in Muslim Culture. If you extrapolate from Steyn's mention of Denmark, about 1% of the population is responsible for 65% of the rapes. That 1% is Muslim. > At least in India, Muslims seem to be restraining themselves! And they are more than 10 percent of the population. Rape statistics of 200 per year in a big city such as Mumbai. New York City with a similar sized population has about 2000 a year. Quite likely, the cases in India are underreported. If the following is extrapolated, women enjoy very unequal status in New York City. [Explaining the phenomenon, Kiran Singh, president Janawadi Mahila Samiti says, "The reason for sexual assault and violence against women is their subordinate and unequal status in society. Offenders know there will be no backlash."] timesofindia.indiatimes.com For women, metro street's a dark alley RACHNA SUBRAMANIAN TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ SUNDAY, AUGUST 25, 2002 12:47:37 AM ] 86 per cent women in Delhi feel unsafe and every third woman knows at least one rape/molestation victim, says a C-voter survey conducted after the capital witnessed a spate of rape cases this month. According to police records (2001 to July 2002), Mumbai has seen 306 cases of eve-teasing, 243 cases of molestation and 229 cases of rape. Once considered safe, Chennai notched up 600 cases of crime against women last year. On Thursday night, four drunken men in a Maruti tried to force a woman driver to pull over barely a furlong from the police headquarters in Delhi. "From a running car, they caught my shirt collar and almost pulled me out. I kept driving and dialled 100 on my mobile," says the girl. For women, metro street's a dark alley Rape nightmare: Living under fear 'He had met someone more than his match' It's a failure of State, society: Kiran Bedi Police have limitations: Nikhil Kumar Delhi tops the list of unsafe Indian metros The chase ended at a traffic light where a crowd caught hold of the men. It took the police 40 minutes to reach the scene. How safe are our city streets for women? Delhi records the highest number of rape cases among the metros: 447 in 2000, 380 in 2001 and 299 till July 2002 as against Mumbai's 124 in 2000 and 127 in 2001, which ranks second on this list. Gangrapes accounted for 8 per cent of these cases in Delhi and 57 per cent victims were less than 16 years old. Explaining the phenomenon, Kiran Singh, president Janawadi Mahila Samiti says, "The reason for sexual assault and violence against women is their subordinate and unequal status in society. Offenders know there will be no backlash." Even high-tech Bangalore does not guarantee safety for women travelling after 10 pm. "Autorickshaws are a no-no if I am held up in office after 9 pm," says Pooja Sharma, 30, an insurance executive. Women prefer being dropped home by male colleagues or picked up by family members. For women like Susan Thomas and Malavika, who drive home in their cars after a late night party or a movie, a weapon in the dashboard is mandatory. "We are armed with knives to deal with anyone who tries to misbehave," they say. Cosmopolitan Kolkata too is losing its character. Residents say incidents of harrassment against women are on the rise. Working women and girl students say the city streets have become less safe, specially after sunset. "What happened in Delhi University is not an isolated case. A few days ago a woman was sexually harassed in Jadavpur University and the authorities just hushed up the case," says activist Maitreyee Chatterjee. Part of the problem lies in the mindset of metros. According to psychologists, urban apathy is primarily responsible for the increasing brazenness of the offenders. Says Farida Lambay of Nirmala Niketan: "The Mumbai mindset is; why should I walk that extra mile to help?" While fear of being harmed is cited as another factor, people like filmmaker-actor Amol Palekar don't buy this argument: "You don't not help someone because you're scared but because you’re insensitive. Fear is perfectly understandable on a one-toone level, not when there are several people who can get together and overpower the rapist. In fact, it is the rapist who should be scared." Is better policing a solution? Tamil Nadu has 107 all-women police stations but sexual harassment cases are on the rise. According to the C-voter survey, a majority of women feel wearing western dresses does not invite trouble while most men feel it is bound to. It's time the male gaze grew more liberal and mindsets changed.

To: LindyBill who wrote (39643)	8/25/2002 11:15:50 AM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I read your post, and I say to myself, "where do I start?" Bill, I have much the same problem. We are further apart on these issues than any others I recall. For me measuring the effects of something called Muslim culture (and I genuinely have no idea what that means--I understand the term Muslim religion--which then gets one into a discussion of various theological interpretations of this and that and the degree to which different populations subscribe to different parts of the interpreted creed) by its worst instances (Islamist varieties such as Al Q) is of the same genre as measuring the effects of Protestantism by fundamentalists who, at least the males, insist women stay "barefoot and pregnant" and at home, or who oppose the teaching of evolution, or the militia groups, or the guy who killed the pro choice doctor around Buffalo, etc. The other assumption you bring to the table, I've commented about this before so I'll make it short, is that something called "cultures" are wholistic creatures which can and should be judged in their totality. I'm not on that boat and don't tend to get on it. But that assumption then leads you to accept the right wing political charge that folk who think multiculturalism is, generally, a good idea, cannot judge abhorrent practices in other societies. So far as I know, that's not a tenet of multiculturalism, certainly not a tenet I would accept. Just one of those many convenient charges that right wing opponents make against it. Multiculturalism, in its most basic form, is an attempt to stop the hasty, categorical judgments that are rendered against "others." To ask that their "otherness" be understood. It does not ask that abhorrent practices within one's own group or the groups of "others" be accepted. Can't say this any clearer. You simply misunderstand, persist in misunderstanding, and then, from your misunderstanding, throw charges. Straw people.