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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnM who wrote (40116)	8/26/2002 8:48:36 PM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Ingore you John? Not a chance. I thought the post was very interesting. I'll let it stir around in my head a bit while I take the young son to soccer practice. Thanks for the thoughtful reply... Michael

To: JohnM who wrote (40116)	8/27/2002 1:48:59 AM
From: KLP	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Actually John...you've given most of us pause to reflect on the word "culture..." and what it means for different countries. And different nationalities. I wonder if it is the word itself that we are using incorrectly. What is it that compels a group of people to have no qualms at all when thinking, and then acting out, the plot to murder thousands of people. Innocent people at that. And whose leader has vowed "Death to Americans everywhere." You said before: AlQaeda. What is the force that compels people to become "Al Qaeda" or any other group that believes they have the right to mass murder innocents? There are many interesting discussions to be found on "definitions of culture" on the web.... wsu.edu:8001/vcwsu/commons/topics/culture/culture-index.html Please recognize that, at present, these pages focus on the concept of culture as it has been articulated in Western scientific and philosophical traditions. The English word "culture" is similar to words in other Romance languages, and indeed the concept has a similar history in many Western countries. In other parts of the world, however, the elements of learned behaviors and meanings systems which we identify as representing something called "culture" might not be grouped together the same way. Consequently, the definitions and discussions of culture which we've collected here are all from Western sources. In contrast, the Western concept of culture can be applied to or exemplified by any human society, and therefore many of our examples and illustrations focus on non-Western peoples. wsu.edu:8001/vcwsu/commons/topics/culture/culture-definitions/whose-text.html If you're in the field, give us some evidence of your credentials. If not, give me some evidence of the source of that quote. Recognize that the position you take in this debate about culture -- whatever position you take -- is a political one with implications about what we should value, what we should praise, what we should accept, what we should teach. When you reflect on this debate, when you contribute your own voice to the discussion, try to be aware of the implications that follow from your position. When you listen to the voices of others, try to listen with awareness, deciding for yourself what is at stake and how their positions relate to your own.

To: JohnM who wrote (40116)	8/27/2002 4:51:16 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

to go to classic texts and say these must be the culture, have been criticized so heavily, I can't think of a serious instance of it at the moment. I think you are pointing to the basic problem I have with "Social Science" today, it's epistemology. Nobody wants to define their terms. If anyone tries, they get the "Tall Poppy" treatment. You can't get to first base in the hard sciences without defining your terms, but everyone assumes it is "OK" for the soft sciences. That certainly makes it convenient to chatter on and on in Social "Science."

To: JohnM who wrote (40116)	8/27/2002 1:17:50 PM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Good morning John, after re-reading your post it reminded me of a book I read years ago entitled "Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenence", the author spent four chapters trying to come to a definition of what "quality" meant. Since, as you've so eloquently put, definitions become a stumbling block, you'll just have to accept mine in regard to culture. :) Culture is the shared mental image of a group of people. It incorporates their experiences, beliefs, attitudes, assumptions, ideals and is the ultimate product of their history and identity. Culture acts as a default decision making system when you lack one individually. Culture is like a blanket which surrounds and protects a society. When members of a society attempt to change a culture, it's like a strand of fiber being pulled from the blanket loosening the fabric. You never know where the effect will end. Law, is subservient to culture. When the mores shift, the laws inevitably shift along with them. The generation that built America declared American independence based on self-evident truths. Yet, for all of their accomplishments, they could not guarantee the success of our nation. Sure, they designed laws which would encourage good habits of government. But, as Emile Durkheim once said. "Where mores are sufficient laws are unnecessary, where mores are insufficient, laws are unenforceable". What has endured is the culture they created. It has provided the blanket and given us the mores to follow the laws as set forth in the constitution, and the vision as set forth in the Declaration of Independence. I don't believe a nation could survive if its citizens stopped believing its culture was worth saving. "We hold these truths to be self-evident" is not a morally relative position. NEA members who published that curriculum believe in a philosophy of moral relativism and thus reject distinctions between good and evil. After September 11th, it is hard to deny that there is evil in the world, and that there is good. If the United States continues to believe that its culture is not only different from, but better than a radical Islamic culture, we will remain strong during this time of conflict. But if we ever come to believe that we are too enlightened ever to risk our safety in something as primitive as war, then all the most sophisticated weapons in the world will not save us. We should be proud of our unique culture, and the NEA should not hesitate to teach how we differ from a radical Islamic one on 9/11.