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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (40987)	8/30/2002 1:04:57 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The difference with the Carter administration is, the neocons realize that certain people have to be shot first. Yet another reason to oppose the neocons. That should never be the basis for foreign policy.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (40987)	8/31/2002 3:08:30 AM
From: SirRealist	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

>>The difference with the Carter administration is, the neocons realize that certain people have to be shot first. << What an outrageous thing to say. If I accept that argument, tell me who has to be shot. Then why. And if neocons truly believe that our national security mandates that, and that they're the real patriots who clearly see the truth, pray tell, why none of those in government service who are saying so are - or were - in the front lines doing the shooting. From all I can see, such virulent claims made without actions that assume self-risk, demonstrate that pro-war neocons are experts at one thing only: getting others to serve as their proxies in the hardest job on the planet. At the least, it speaks of duty-shirkers, if not outright cowards. At worst, it paints a picture of warpimps eager to hire hitmen on the cheap, because their tiny minority can't walk their talk. And when I say cheap, I mean they don't even open their own wallets to do the hiring, knowing they can milk the taxpayer to foot the bill. But guess what? I agree with you, Nadine. Before security and stability can rule the day, certain people have to be shot. On both sides: the neocons. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Not that I propose we do that. But on any side, by any ideology or religion, folks who insist on killing as the only practical resolution represent a danger to all others. Killing as a pre-emptive measure risks going the way of precogs, presuming guilt and acting as judge/jury/executioner, which subverts all concepts of law and justice. If a case for guilt is to be made, put it before an independent review panel. Then apprehend the guilty. But saying "some people have to be shot first" covers up the practical application that hundreds and thousands of innocents will usually be killed in that process, which is precisely why shooting must always be a last resort when other options have been exhausted. People on the front lines doing the shooting understand this better than anyone. The neocons, perhaps because of their distance from the gruesome realities of war, display a disturbing indifference to what they propose. I propose a middle ground. Every time someone proposes killing as the only way, a young Marine should punch them in the face. Then they can be permitted to present the same or a fresh opinion, again. With the same response. After being thoroughly pummelled, if they can state the same conviction through bloodied lips and broken noses, then the rest of us should seriously consider what they have to say. Perhaps that sounds brutal but it's infinitesimal compared to the brutality they suggest we unleash. And if they are to have their way, enduring a little pain to stress the point is a very small cost compared to what our troops will endure. Instead, the neocons will make the ancient arguments that those who choose other ways are cowards, wimps, simpleminded, weak-kneed, pampered, soft-headed, etc. As we see lately, they'll even denigrate military vets with their name-calling. But until they walk their talk firsthand, all they are is jive pimps.