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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (56819)	9/4/2002 12:22:35 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

My original post was about absolutism and its resultant conflict - I think that religion is only one of the factors, but it is impossible to tease out that kind of absolutism from social absolutism. We Americans are consumer-oriented. We ASSUME that everyone else is to and it is some kind of natural state. I disagree. As I get older I want less stuff, not more. I tend to be picky about quality, but price is NOT a deciding factor - value is. Many Americans are starting to become aware of this. I don't live in the biggest house I could afford nor do I drive the most expensive car I could afford. It is a matter of principle. When I went to China, there were some very stereotypical New Yorkers who would go off-ship wearing gaudy cocktail rings (even though we were told that was very bad taste). It showed a complete disregard for the sentiments of the local people. It wasn't so much that the locals couldn't afford it (they couldn't) but that it was considered rude to display wealth so conspicuously. I think simplistic views of war and conflict must be re-examined. People don't want to die on average. And in cultures where they do, it is because they have sublimated their life into some transcendental meaning based upon a belief system. Only an absolute belief in principles can provoke someone to terminate themselves. Nature does provide examples where self-sacrifice occurs, but it is usually related to some sort of reproductive drive, directly or indirectly (like bees). When people feel their culture and way of life is under attack, they get very defensive. There was a movie we watched recently about the approaching end of "deaf culture". Cochlear implants are so good now that deaf culture may be gone in our generation. People that are deaf and only know deaf culture see this as a transgression against their kind. To me it isn't rational. To them it is.

To: The Philosopher who wrote (56819)	9/4/2002 1:28:07 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

For the most part, paganism was non- dogmatic and syncretistic, which is why, for example, Hinduism is such a tangle of competing myths and theosophies. Rome did not conquer surrounding territories for religious reasons, per se, but in order to add to its glory. In that, the sentiment was closer to that of a sports fan, gaining satisfaction from the triumph of the home team during the World Series, than of a religious fanatic. And if you think the sports metaphor too strained, consider soccer hooliganism. War may have various motivations, but insofar as it is primarily a contest among states, it is a competition for glory, to demonstrate the greatness of the state, which reflects on its citizens. Atheism, in fact, increases the motivation to act out of a desire for glory, since we seek to transcend the fleeting aspects of life and participate in something greater than ourselves, something that will endure. There is a fairly good song in "Rent" that expresses the sentiment, sung by someone with HIV: "One Song Glory". Of course, such a desire to accomplish something durable can lead to great art or invention, but it often is a rationale for radical political action, to participate in the change of history, and may directly lead to fascism, or the belief that only by sublimating one's individuality to the state can one achieve a kind of immortality. In the face of the fleetingness of life, the idea of a "good death", heroically serving one's country, can be very attractive, all the more so if one thinks that glory is all there is.......