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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (44315)	9/16/2002 3:22:51 AM
From: SirRealist	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

>>I have never heard Falwell or Robertson advocating an overthrow of the Constitution and rule by preachers.<< Well, perhaps, but they do want to take over the schools and end the divide between church and state, as John indicated. Of course they don't want to overthrow the Constitution as they believe that was divinely inspired. But they go after Constitutional defenders like the ACLU. And they share a profound disrespect for Jewish folks. ____________________________________ Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU, and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang "God Bless America" and said "let the ACLU be hanged"? In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time -- calling upon God. -- Rev. Jerry Falwell, justifying the breech of Constitutional Separation of Religion from Government while blaming civil libertarians for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev. Pat Robertson again agreed, quoted from AANEWS #958 by American Atheists (September 14, 2001) I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be! -- Rev. Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979 pp. 52-53, from Albert J. Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country. -- Rev. Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976 If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth ... We need to pull out all the stops to recruit and train 25 million Americans to become informed pro-moral activists whose voices can be heard in the halls of Congress. I am convinced that America can be turned around if we will all get serious about the Master's business. It may be late, but it is never too late to do what is right. We need an old-fashioned, God-honoring, Christ-exalting revival to turn American back to God. America can be saved! -- Jerry Falwell, "Moral Majority Report" for September, 1984 There is no separation of church and state. Modern U.S. Supreme Courts have raped the Constitution and raped the Christian faith and raped the churches by misinterpreting what the Founders had in mind in the First Amendment to the Constitution. -- Jerry Falwell (source unknown) Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan. -- Rev. Jerry Falwell (source unknown) The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews. -- Rev. Jerry Falwell (source unknown) The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior. -- Jerry Falwell, Listen, America! Take the quiz, for funsies.... funnystrange.com People who spread a message of intolerance and hate walk the thin line of legality... they can't be prosecuted for their words, though their words do inspire others to act in hateful and illegal ways. So, yeah, a direct comparison with Islamists does not hold, as you say. But dismissing fundie televangelists words as 'general rhetoric' isn't quite right when their specific solutions are pretty extreme and promote a religious domination of all activities that is anti-everything-non-Christian.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (44315)	9/16/2002 9:46:01 AM
From: JohnM	Respond to of 281500

Nope, that's a general characteristic of Islamic thought. The Islamists are distinguished by a desire to impose, by force if necessary, a totalitarian form of Shari'a, which is thought to represent a return to "pure" 7th century Islam. I don't accept that, Nadine, but I don't have time to go further with it right now. I'm laboring under the burden of all the backlog of a week's undone work so will only hit the thread for quick posts for several days. There is a long post about Kepel's arguments that I might prepare, if I get the time, and if I have the interest. These arguments, believe it or not, are about fourth or fifth priority in my life right now, which, I'm much surprised to report, is quite full. As for your first point that the lack of separation of state and religion is a characteristic of Islamic thought, the point that bounces around in my head right now is that Islamic thought, like Protestant theology, is almost infinitely pliable. I've read some stuff discussing fairly widespread attempts to bring the Koran into conversation with modernity that rings almost word for word with the same efforts in Protestantism. One might note the differences between Puritan conceptions of the same and contemporary theological efforts in protestantism. But that's along post; not a short one; at least if I wish to do it justice.