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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: JohnM who wrote (45760)9/20/2002 10:03:40 PM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 281500
 
JANES INFORMATION GROUP EDITORS DISPUTE IRAQ CLAIMS....

Recognized Experts from JANES Group, UK dispute Bush Claims about Iraqi WMD preparedness:

freshair.npr.org

Real Audio: npr.org



To: JohnM who wrote (45760)9/21/2002 1:53:43 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
Just watched Shields/Brooks on Lehrer tonight. Their regular Friday gabfest. I hope you saw it, John. When Shields was talking, I felt like I was listening to you. Brooks was saying, "Hey, we have to take Saddam out, and the only argument against it is to say that you don't think he is enough of a threat and that it is safe to leave him alone."

Shields was really enraged about the total collapse of any Congressional opposition to going in. They both feel that Congress will pass the resolution, 80/20, with some possible conditions to restrict it to an "Iraq only" attack. I have been watching Mark Shields for many years, and I have never seen him this angry. He is about as partisan as they come, and he really feels that the Dem party has let the country down by not opposing this and creating a bigger debate. All three of them were at a loss to explain the complete "turnabout" on this issue in the last two weeks.

I read your post of the Book Review on Pakistan. I now understand how the "New York Review of Books" works. They take a book or books on a subject, turn them over for a review to someone who really knows the subject, and expect him to write an article about the whole thing, with the books as a background. It certainly works well.

I thought the piece was excellent, and about as fair as you could expect. I felt the author was biased toward the Democratic attempts at Government, as we are, but was realistic enough to admit that they had worked even less well than the Dictatorships at bringing stability to any of the Countries involved. The whole modern history of Central Asia has been one of turmoil and disaster. It is too bad we are involved, but no way out in the foreseeable future. Overall, it presented a very discouraging forecast. You can point all the fingers you want, but no Administration has been successful there. I heard the other day that there are between Twelve to Sixteen Million people in Karachi alone. No wonder they have trouble finding terrorists there.

I hope the Cassandras are wrong, and Afghanistan does not go back to total warfare.



To: JohnM who wrote (45760)9/21/2002 2:25:01 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
Meanwhile, back at the Justice Department. (You know, the place with the "Draped" Statues?)

Trial Run
Accused terrorists get due process, when the government feels like it.
By Jacob Sullum

The federal government last week charged six men from Lackawanna, New York, with providing material support to Al Qaeda by undergoing training at one of the network's camps in Afghanistan. There, according to prosecutors, they received indoctrination in terrorism, a pep talk from Osama bin Laden, and instruction in the use of assault rifles, handguns, artillery, and anti-aircraft guns.

The authorities say the men, U.S. citizens of Yemeni descent, returned to the United States as a "sleeper cell," awaiting orders to attack. But despite their alleged commitment to violence against Americans, they are not to be confused with the "enemy combatants" whom the Bush administration says it can keep in military custody indefinitely without charge or legal representation.

To the contrary, the six accused terrorists were promptly arraigned and given a bail hearing, at which they were all represented by attorneys. Barring a plea agreement, they will eventually go to trial, where the government will have to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. If it does, they could receive sentences of up to 15 years.

Jose Padilla could be imprisoned just as long or even longer, in his case without a trial. When the FBI arrested Padilla last May, it said he had met repeatedly with leaders of Al Qaeda, undergone training in the use of explosives, and studied the mechanics of "dirty bombs."

Like the Lackawanna Six, Padilla is a U.S. citizen with alleged ties to Al Qaeda but no specific plans to carry out an attack. Unlike them, he was classified as an enemy combatant with no right to due process. He is being held incommunicado at a Navy brig in Charleston, South Carolina.

If anybody qualifies as an enemy combatant, you'd think someone who actually took up arms against U.S. forces would. Yet John Walker Lindh, captured last fall while fighting with the Taliban in Afghanistan, was charged in federal court. The California native was scheduled for trial until his July 15 plea agreement, under which he received a 20-year sentence.

Like Lindh, Yasser Hamdi is a U.S. citizen captured while fighting in Afghanistan. Yet he has been placed in the same legal limbo as Jose Padilla, held by the Defense Department without charge or access to a lawyer. The government says he has no right to challenge his detention, because President Bush's finding that he is an enemy combatant cannot be reviewed by the courts.

Unlike Lindh and Hamdi, Zacarias Moussaoui is a French citizen of Moroccan descent. He is accused of being "the 20th hijacker," prevented from participating in the September 11 attacks only because he was in custody at the time. He is scheduled to be tried in federal court early next year.

Similarly, Richard C. Reid, accused of trying to set off a bomb concealed in his shoe on an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami last December, is a British citizen. Yet he is being held in civilian custody and is scheduled to be tried in federal court this fall.

No wonder the Bush administration insists that its decisions about how to deal with suspected terrorists cannot be second-guessed by judges. If there is any legal logic to the government's determination of which accused terrorists deserve due process and which do not, it can be discerned only by minds keener than mine.

Not only is there no apparent rhyme or reason to the treatment of these cases; there does not even seem to be a trend over time. Some legal scholars who defend the administration had predicted that it would increasingly avoid civilian courts as the war on terrorism progressed. That hypothesis was refuted by the decision to charge and try the men from Lackawanna rather than simply locking them up in a brig.

Meanwhile, the military tribunals that President Bush authorized last fall have yet to be used. The administration said U.S. citizens would not be subject to the tribunals, which have looser rules of evidence and do not allow appeals to civilian courts. That sounded like a concession to critics, until it turned out that the alternative to trial by military tribunal could be no trial at all.

The standard the government is applying seems to be something like this: When you've got enough evidence, prosecute. When you don't, hand the suspect over to the Pentagon.

So perhaps the administration is following a rule after all. It just isn't the rule of law.



To: JohnM who wrote (45760)9/21/2002 4:52:27 AM
From: LindyBill  Respond to of 281500
 
Time is getting close for the Election. Here is an article from the NYT on the technical aspect of it. Confirms your fears, John.

September 21, 2002
G.O.P. Gains From War Talk but Does Not Talk About It
By ALISON MITCHELL and ADAM NAGOURNEY

[W] ASHINGTON, Sept. 20 ? Senior Republican Party officials say the prospect of at least two more weeks of Congressional debate on Iraq is allowing their party to run out the clock on the fall election, blocking Democrats as they try to seize on the faltering economy and other domestic concerns as campaign issues.

At the same time, Republicans said that as they entered the final six weeks of contests in which control of Congress is at stake, they did not want to be perceived as exploiting the talk of war for political gain. They said they were urging candidates not to do anything that might give Democrats ammunition to turn the war issue against them.

The emerging dynamic has produced growing if quiet optimism among Republicans that they will be able to turn back the Democratic drive to take control of the House, if only because Democrats are running out of time to make their case.

Senator Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican who once led his party's campaign arm in the Senate, said, "I do believe the issue of terrorism and Iraq will be very much on the mind of voters going in to Election Day."

Mr. McConnell noted that Republicans traditionally had a strong lead on national security issues.

Scott Reed, a Republican consultant, said: "The secret to the election now is to beat the clock. Every week, you can hear the ripping noise of another page of the calendar coming off the wall. Another week has gone by. And there's only six more to go."

Democrats, in contrast, are voicing frustration with the turn of events, even as they note that six weeks can be a long time in politics.

"Iraq is the only thing we're talking about right now," Senator John B. Breaux, Democrat of Louisiana, recently said before Democrats finally decided that a swift vote on military action against Iraq was better for them.

If Congress did not act soon on Iraq, Mr. Breaux said: "It means we probably won't get to do anything else. And there are a lot of issues that need our attention."

A striking reminder of how the war talk has drowned out issues that Democrats believe work in their favor came on Thursday, when the Dow Jones average sunk to 7,940. That was the lowest it had been since last July, when many Democrats believed that the nation's fixation on a plummeting market and reports of corporate malfeasance were setting the stage for Democrats to win control of both houses of Congress.

Asked today if the latest dip on Wall Street drew the kind of coverage the last one did, a senior Democratic strategist responded with a glum e-mail message: "Not at all. War, war, war."

Republicans say the Iraq issue will not guarantee that they win control of the House and Senate. Several noted that they had made a point of rebutting Democrats who had tried to raise Social Security or prescription drug coverage as an issue.

Strategists on both sides said it was highly unlikely that the fate of any Congressional election would swing on a vote on the Iraq resolution. As of now, it appears that the resolution authorizing President Bush to use force against Saddam Hussein will pass with overwhelming bipartisan support.

The significance of the war debate, Republicans say, is that, by crowding out the issues Democrats wanted to talk about, it changed a race that had appeared to be shifting toward the Democrats in midsummer.

Several Republicans said the issue of corporate accountability, which had once been central to Democratic efforts, appears to have faded. The Iraq debate has also lifted Mr. Bush's poll ratings, and even Democrats said Congressional candidates could benefit because of that.

Still, Republicans said that any candidate perceived as using the war for political purposes was running a risk. "People do not view this as a partisan issue," said David Winston, who conducts polls for the House Republican conference, "and they do not want the political folks here in Washington treating it like a partisan issue."

The tension between the two conflicting forces ? the satisfaction with the political climate, set against the concern that Republicans not be seen as using a war to manipulate political races ? has been clear at the White House and on Capitol Hill.

In recent days, the White House has handed out to crucial Republicans in Congress a one-page summary of a published poll from its Office of Strategic Initiatives, which is run by Karl Rove, Mr. Bush's chief political adviser, to underscore the president's wide and growing support.

"Americans say President acting to protect nation while Democrats playing politics," the document said.

On the other hand, Mr. Rove and Ken Mehlman, the White House political director, met with senior Republican Congressional leaders recently to draw up the party's political themes for the closing weeks of Congress, and barely mentioned Iraq.

For the most part, Democratic and Republican leaders said, candidates were steering clear of the issue, though there are notable exceptions. One is in South Dakota, where Senator Tim Johnson, a Democrat, is facing a strong challenge from Representative John Thune.

The Thune campaign mobilized military veterans to criticize Mr. Johnson's 1991 vote against authorizing Mr. Bush's father to wage the Persian Gulf war. The Johnson camp countered with veterans deploring that Mr. Thune was using war as a political cudgel. Mr. Bush's father entered the fray at a fund-raiser for Mr. Thune, where he said it was critical for Congress to support the president during a time of war.

In some other tight Senate races in conservative states, Republicans are not raising Iraq directly but focusing on military might and patriotism. In South Carolina, the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee planned to start running a new television spot on Saturday upbraiding Democratic candidate Alex Sanders for not supporting a constitutional amendment against flag burning. "Burning the American flag, the flag our soldiers carry in to battle," the advertisement intones.

In Minnesota, Norm Coleman, the Republican challenger, has been attacking Senator Paul Wellstone by raising questions about his votes on national defense.

Still, Republicans say it is important not to cede the field on domestic issues, particularly because they expect the Democrats to hammer at the economy and issues like health care in a late campaign barrage of TV advertising directed at the relatively few seats in play.

"We need to keep talking about the economy and Republican ideas to further the economy," said Representative Rob Portman, an Ohio Republican close to President Bush.

Beyond that, Republicans acknowledge that many Democrats will neutralize the Iraq issue by supporting Mr. Bush. Representative Lindsey O. Graham, the Republican Senate candidate in South Carolina, said he would not be able to use Iraq against his opponent because he expected that "wherever I'm at, that's where he's at."

"If I said, Hang them by their feet, he'd say, Hang them by their feet," Mr. Lindsay said. "Ain't going to be a difference."

Democratic strategists said today that they were confident that after the vote on Iraq, the ground would shift back to domestic issues.

"Obviously the Republican strategy is to prevent campaigns from ever getting back to a domestic message," said James M. Jordan, the executive director of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.
nytimes.com