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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (46584)	9/24/2002 1:04:52 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

It's particularly absurd to call the Israelis (who come all colors white to black, with most of absolutely Middle Eastern descent) "white", and the Iraqis (pretty pale usually) "black", unless you are really using "white" as a code word for "European style democracy" and "black" for "Third World dictatorship". That makes sense. "White" is code for north, rich, advantaged, "black" is code for south, poor, disadvantaged. Thus, as U.S. citizens, Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice aren't "black," although Dr. Rice came from a disadvantaged background. But it still breaks down when you consider Pakistan and India. India is a democracy, Pakistan is presently a dictatorship, but the citizens of both are much poorer than the citizens of Israel, so that should make them "black," and we aren't trying to take their WMD away. Sorry, it just boggles me too much.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (46584)	9/24/2002 1:11:18 PM
From: Win Smith	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Lively Arab efforts to revive Nazi anti-semitism? How about the lively Israeli lobby efforts to call anybody who departs from the party line "anti-semitic"? Unless they happen to be Jewish, which case they're "self-hating". No need for a "revival" there, though, that game has been continuous for as long as I can remember.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (46584)	9/24/2002 1:59:20 PM
From: spiral3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Mandela - firstly, I think you got the code part right but as to whether or not he was talking about european style democracy vs third world dictator that’s not entirely clear, maybe a bit of a stretch since his experience was with neither. Of course if your characterization is the code, racism, on both sides of the divide would not be far behind, and you’re bluffing yourself if you think that then you're no longer talking about race anyway. I did think his comment sounded odd and thought that perhaps something of this was left on the cutting room floor. Although I’m not here to make excuses for him, note where he went when asked to elaborate. There is a lot of residue out there, history leaves a shadow. Secondly, If your point is that race is an inappropriate prism through which to view the conflict, why do you keep bringing it up. Jokes aside I think you make a valid point about the framework and I agree. I was discussing his comment with Tony Karon (I only bring his name up because you’ve posted some of his articles, and have been puzzled by some of them too) - when I asked him about it, he looked at me, smiled and shrugged his shoulders - granted he had a drink in his hand at the time. which is religous/ideological at bottom <>One person with a belief is equal to a force of ninety-nine with only interests.<> -John Stuart Mill, economist.