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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (60492)	10/1/2002 2:16:38 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

I don't think you are getting the point of view I am pushing here, which I would call "moral empiricism". Since values are pre- given, and necessary to internalize in order to get started as a moral being, morality always primarily involves the claims of society on you, including what self- interested behavior is approved of (studiousness good, drunkenness bad). Society prevents us from being lotus eaters by making us disapprove of it, it may very well be, from a secular point of view, the happiest way to live. Yes, we negotiate, take exception, and edit as we go along, but the idea that we create our own values is just wrong. As Aristotle observes, it makes more difference if you are brought up well than if you have been taught a good moral philosophy. By the way, Aristotle essentially favors the self- interest view, by deeming the goal "happiness", and he does a better job of it than Rand. But even he asserts so strong a claim of justice upon us that it overrides any secular prospect for long term happiness, and never really deals with the conundrum........

To: Lane3 who wrote (60492)	10/1/2002 3:13:51 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

And don't forget, you also have to deal with people whose concept of their self interest is to persuade others that they have discovered the one truth and that it is their obligation to bring all others to agree with this one truth, by the sword if necessary.