Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (49553)	10/5/2002 12:24:35 PM
From: KLP	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

You are being too kind, CB. I don't believe Ramsey Clark has the United States best interests at heart... here's just one of his websites, and just some of the @#$%^&( found there.....and there is more...The left, far left socialists should be so proud of him.... iacenter.org Founded by Ramsey Clark, Former U.S. Attorney General Latest addition Sept. 29, 2002: GEORGE BUSH PLANS HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS/ Other statements and actions from the anti-war international movement on the threats to Iraq RAMSEY CLARK URGES PEOPLE TO JOIN EMERGENCY ACTIONS SEPT. 14-16, AND INTERNATIONALLY COORDINATED DAY OF PROTEST, OCT. 26 Letter by former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark: THE UNITED NATIONS MUST ACT TO PREVENT AN ATTACK BY THE UNITED STATES AGAINST IRAQ [in French in Spanish in Portuguese in Dutch in Italian in German in Danish in Arabic-pdf] If the United Nations is unable to restrain the United States, a permanent member of the Security Council, from committing crimes against peace and humanity.... / WORLD OPPOSITION TO U.S. THREATS ON IRAQ: RAMSEY CLARK LETTER GALVANIZES ANTI-WAR SENTIMENT A CALL TO THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT: Stop the war on Iraq before it starts! By Brian Becker [also in French and Spanish] [an article in German about Brian Becker’s call to action] JANUARY 18, 2003: MARCH ON THE WHITE HOUSE - WASHINGTON DC Mobilize to stop U.S. invasion: Plans revealed for new war on Iraq IAC CO-DIRECTOR APPEARS ON CNN SPEAKING ON IRAQ SANCTIONS BUSH'S "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION" HOAX: BIG LIE MASKS REAL MOTIVE FOR IRAQ WAR/ PART 1: ANSWERING BUSH'S WAR PROPAGANDA MUMIA'S ATTORNEYS DEMAND SUPREME COURT HEAR TESTIMONY FROM THE MAN WHO SHOT DANIEL FAULKNER The appeal brief argues that Jamal is the innocent victim of a frame- up by corrupt police and organized crime and demands his immediate release. . MUMIA'S ATTORNEYS CHARGE D.A. WITH FAKING DEATH OF KEY WITNESS Martin Luther King III on Mumia Abu-Jamal... 02-06-02 Yohn appeal Petition Pennsylvania Governor / IAC Brochure: While Yohn’s decision is a hard-won concession --Struggle must intensify to free Mumia Abu-Jamal / In PDF Format NIGERIAN WOMEN'S TAKEOVER ENDS IN VICTORY The women understand the despicable role Chevron Texaco plays in taking the precious resource of oil from their community .... News on Gulf War Syndrome--Depleted Uranium Gulf War veterans in France, Britain, Canada, the U.S.--and of course in Iraq--have experienced an apparently disproportionate number of illnesses.... Many suspect that the main cause of these illnesses is the exposure to depleted uranium .... MUHAJIR FRAME-UP HIDES REAL TERRORISTS: WASHINGTON'S DEPLETED URANIUM "DIRTY BOMBS" The Korea Truth Commission’s 7th International Fact-finding Delegation Investigates U.S. War Crimes Against Civilians During the Korean War When the south Korean troops reached the top of the mountain, they found only civilians. Using a trench that the partisans had dug, the troops lined up the villagers by the hundreds and executed them.... 100,000 People March in Washington DC & 35,000 in San Francisco in Support of Palestinian People and Against War, Racism & Poverty/ Largest Protests for Palestinian Rights Ever Held in U.S. History [in Spanish] Members of the Muslim Community, Antiwar Activists, Latin American Solidarity Groups and People From All Over the United States Unite to Say: ‘We Are All Palestinians!’ Today over 100,000 people marched in Washington DC in the largest pro-Palestinian rally in U.S. history. MEDIA COVERAGE OF APRIL 20, 2002, DEMONSTRATIONS AGAINST WAR AND RACISM / PHOTO JOURNAL * San Francisco Upcoming ANSWER Activities: Palestine Teach-in, Bush Protest, Mobilizers meeting AL-AWDA-News: Take a look... Pictures talk for themselves! * PHOTO EVIDENCE OF U.S. SUPPORTED ISRAELI WAR CRIMES IN JENIN--WARNING: The photos are not suitable for viewing by minors, or those easily shaken.

To: Ilaine who wrote (49553)	10/7/2002 1:20:22 AM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi CobaltBlue; Re: "Ramsey Clark is well-meaning, but his approach to world politics leads to disasters. For example, he urged Jimmy Carter not to assist the Shah of Iran, but to let the Iranians "determine their own fate." This lead to the Ayatollah Khomeini and a lot of misery for the Iranians." The US has very little influence on the citizens of Iran. This is as true now as it was back in 1976. The US can't even influence its own citizens to not smoke. Every time the US does try to influence another country's citizens the result is pretty much the same. They feel that the US is sticking its nose in their business and they react to it by going the other way. Not surprisingly, the same thing happens when foreign nations try to influence things in the United States. It simply is not in the human genome to allow foreigners to run ones own country. Iran had plenty of cash, they've got lots of oil. If the Shah was a survivable regime, he could have (and undoubtedly did) buy weapons from plenty of world providers. That he was put out is an indication that his citizens weren't too fond of him. Our support of unpopular regimes is what got us into the Vietnam meat grinder, and the same mistake, but with less serious consequences, has led to problems besides the one in Iran. The only reason we supported the Shah was because he was *our* bastard. That Carter dropped support before it became a matter of truly big bucks or American lives is an indication that the guy had some sense. A decade later the whole reason for needing guys like the Shah on our side disappeared when the USSR went tits up. We're not that powerful, nor is our understanding of the political situation in obscure countries on the other side of the planet that good. *Most of the world is going to have to learn to just get by without the US telling them how to live their lives.* I don't know how they'll get by, but I'm guessing that they will find a way. Of your other examples, the Cambodian intervention would have been a humanitarian thing, but our stupid intervention in Vietnam poisoned the waters. Rwanda would have been a good thing, I blame that one on the occupant of the White House at the time. Eastern europe was a hopeless case. If you look at a map, you will see that the NATO / Warsaw Pact boundary was drawn where it was for very obvious military reasons having to do with "salients" and all that. To try and move into the various countries in Eastern Europe would have vastly expanded our defensive lines, and left us subject to much easier attack. Re: "Letting nations "determine their own fate" sounds very high-minded, but the results can be very bloody." (1) At least the blood isn't on our own hands. (2) When we do get involved, since the only truly controllable tool we have is the military, the result is not going to be bloodless, and on occasion has been extraordinarily bloody. Sometimes there just isn't a perfect solution to a problem, and you have to go with the best that can be done. Sometimes the best that can be done is nothing. -- Carl