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To: X Y Zebra who wrote (5083)	10/5/2002 10:14:18 PM
From: X Y Zebra	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 57110

msnbc.com Container ships remain anchored outside of the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. Thirty-one more ships are scheduled to arrive in the coming days to the world's third-largest harbor complex. Bush pressed to intervene in port dispute Dock workers, shipping lines plan to continue mediated talks ASSOCIATED PRESS SAN FRANCISCO, Oct. 4 — Manufacturers are taking their case to the White House to press for President Bush’s intervention in the labor dispute that has shut down 29 West Coast ports and could sap billions from the nation’s troubled economy.

To: X Y Zebra who wrote (5083)	10/5/2002 11:17:17 PM
From: Oral Roberts	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 57110

Having gone through a very ugly negotiation and strike a few years ago I remember an observation I made to the State President of the union that sent him into a chair throwing, swearing rage, (must have struck a nerve:). Anyhow I observed that negotiations with unions are very tough because you have 3 groups trying to agree on something. 1. Workers wanting to get better wages, benefits and whatever. 2. Employers that would like to make a profit and remain viable through good and bad times. 3. The Union who must absorb as much of the coming raises as it can to increase it's revenue flow so that it can increase it's bloated hierarchy and pensions and shit. Number 3 is the biggest problem I found. They have to protect ALL jobs while increasing the amount of money per hour paid to the union per man so that they can achieve their goals which have absolutely nothing to do with either the employers nor the workers. Our area a journeyman earns 37.85 per hour now, 18.74 of which goes to the union for vacation fund, local pension, national pension, health and welfare, local training, national training, SASMI and of course the business agent. As a side note a journeyman working a normal year is going to earn about 40K with overtime and such for his check share and almost the same for the union. A journeyman that is wise enough to become a business agent on the other hand will earn 96K per year plus a car and other benefits like the annual agent meeting in such awful locations such as Tahiti. I want to sell my business and become a union rep. No stress, no risk, no investment, way the hell more time to play golf and best of all make more money.

To: X Y Zebra who wrote (5083)	10/6/2002 3:47:44 PM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 57110

btw... great post by Earlie. I like this: Not a good thing to be the last fatality of a long war, as "dead" is still "dead". ho ho ho... I wonder what other casualties of this Grizzly Bear will be in the end... <can we spell U N I O N S ?> love it.... dead is still dead. unions effected the decimation of our manufacturing base. once co's make the capital expenditures to set up shop overseas it is next to impossible to bring them back. (union busting will become the next wave, imo....basically the attitude is "we pick up our tent and move, rather than allow union demands bankrupt our corp...do you think there is tremendous sympathy for dock workers making 6 figures initiating a work slow down to block utilization of technology? i suppose indeed it is about busting the union if the union can't morph into a viable entity in the 21 century)