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To: E who wrote (2394)10/8/2002 2:28:44 PM
From: Original Mad Dog  Respond to of 7689
 
Thanks E. And here is another take on the Iraq situation, published yesterday:

Our Resolution

By JOE LIEBERMAN

The most fateful and difficult responsibility the Constitution gives to members of Congress is to decide when the president should be authorized to lead the men and women of the U.S. military into war. We are now engaged in such a debate regarding Saddam Hussein's belligerent dictatorship in Iraq.

Although I disagree with many other aspects of President Bush's foreign and domestic policy, I believe deeply that he is right about Iraq, and that our national security will be strengthened if members of both parties come together now to support the commander-in-chief and our military. That's why I have cosponsored the Senate resolution that was negotiated with the White House. It is time to authorize the use of our military might to enforce U.N. resolutions, disarm Iraq, and eliminate the ongoing threat to our security, and the world's, posed by Saddam Hussein's rabid regime.

Responsibility

Making the case for such action is a responsibility to be shouldered by those of us who have reached these conclusions. If we do so convincingly, not only will the American people and our allies better understand our standards for engagement, but governments around the world who defy the dictates of the U.N. to make weapons of mass destruction or to support terrorists will appreciate how painful the consequences of their brutality and lawlessness can be.

In that spirit, let me now address a few of the most critical questions my Senate colleagues and many Americans are asking.

• Why has military action against Saddam become so urgent? Why not give diplomacy and inspections another chance? Why now?


For more than a decade we have tried everything -- diplomacy, sanctions, inspections, limited military action -- except war to convince Saddam to keep the promises he made, and the U.N. endorsed, to end the Gulf War. Those steps have not worked.

In 1998, Bob Kerrey, John McCain, and I sponsored the Iraq Liberation Act declaring it national policy to change the regime in Baghdad. The act became law, but until recently little has been done to implement it. In the meantime, Saddam has not wavered from his ambition for hegemonic control over the Persian Gulf and the Arab world: He has invested vast amounts of his national treasure in building inventories of biological and chemical weapons and the means to deliver them to targets near and far. Saddam once told his Republican Guard that its national honor would not be achieved until Iraq's arm reached out beyond its borders to "every point in the Arab homeland."

So, my answer to "Why now?" is, "Why not earlier?" And, of course, that question has new urgency since Sept. 11, 2001.

• Won't a war against Iraq slow or stop our more urgent war against terrorism?


To me, the two are inextricably linked. First, remember that Iraq under Saddam is one of only seven nations in the world to be designated by our State Department as a state sponsor of terrorism, providing aid and training to terrorists who have killed Americans and others. Second, Saddam himself meets the definition of a terrorist -- someone who attacks civilians to achieve a political purpose. Third, though the relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam's regime is a subject of intense debate within the intelligence community, we have evidence of meetings between Iraqi officials and leaders of al Qaeda, and testimony that Iraqi agents helped train al Qaeda operatives to use chemical and biological weapons. We also know that al Qaeda leaders have been, and are now, harbored in Iraq.

Saddam's is the only regime that combines growing stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and a record of using them with regional hegemonic ambitions and a record of supporting terrorists. If we remove his influence from the Middle East and free the Iraqi people to determine their own destiny, we will transform the politics of the region. That will only advance the war against terrorism, not set it back.

• Why should we launch a strike against a sovereign nation that has not struck us first?


We should and will soon have a larger debate about the president's new doctrine of pre-emption, but not here and now, because the term is not apt for our current situation. We have been engaged in an ongoing conflict with Saddam's regime ever since the Gulf War began. Every day, British and American aircraft and personnel are enforcing no-fly zones over northern and southern Iraq; the ongoing force of about 7,500 American men and women in uniform costs our taxpayers more than $1 billion a year. And this is not casual duty. Saddam's air defense forces have shot at U.S. and British planes 406 times (and counting) in 2002 alone.

As former Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger recently told the Senate Armed Services Committee, "Vigorous action in the course of an ongoing conflict hardly constitutes preventive war."

• Why not have two congressional resolutions, one now encouraging the U.N. to respond to President Bush's call for inspections without limits, and another one later authorizing U.S. military action if the U.N. refuses to act?


This is sometimes described as the way to stop "go-it-alone" action by the U.S. unless and until absolutely necessary. But I believe that the best way to encourage forceful U.N. action, so that we never have to "go it alone," is for Congress to unite now in authorizing the president to take military action, if necessary. I am convinced that if we lead decisively, others will come to our side, in the U.N. and after. If we are steadfast in pursuit of our principles, allies in Europe and the Middle East will be with us.

• Why not just authorize the president to take military action to disarm the Iraqis instead of giving him a "blank check"?


Our resolution does not give the president a blank check. It authorizes the use of U.S. military power only to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq" and to "enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."

There are 535 members of Congress who have the constitutional responsibility to authorize American military action, but there is only one commander-in-chief who can carry it out. Having reached the conclusion I have about the clear and present danger Saddam represents to the U.S., I want to give the president a limited but strong mandate to act against Saddam. Five hundred and thirty-five members of Congress cannot wage war; we can only authorize it. The rest is up to the president and our military.

A Record of Strength

We in Congress have now begun a very serious debate on these questions and others. Each member must act on values, conscience, sense of history and national security. When it is over, I believe there will be a strong majority of senators who will vote for the bipartisan resolution that John Warner, John McCain, Evan Bayh and I have introduced. I am equally confident that a strong majority of Democrats in the Senate will support it. In doing so, they will embrace the better parts of our party's national security legacy of the last half century. From Truman's doctrine to prevent communist expansion to Kennedy's "quarantine" of Cuba to prevent Soviet missiles from remaining there, to Bill Clinton's deployment of American forces to the Balkans to stop genocide and prevent a wider war in Europe, Democrats should be proud of our record of strength when it counted the most.

Each of the Democratic presidents above tried diplomacy, but when it failed, they unleashed America's military forces across the globe to confront tyranny, to stop aggression, and to prevent any more damage to America or Americans. That is precisely what our resolution would empower President Bush to do now.

Mr. Lieberman is a Democratic senator from Connecticut.

Updated October 7, 2002



To: E who wrote (2394)10/8/2002 2:37:09 PM
From: Original Mad Dog  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 7689
 
Text of Bush 1st Amendment speech:

whitehouse.org (click through to site to see documents related to speech)

PRESIDENT BUSH OFFERS WARM ENDORSEMENT TO INNOVATIVE PROGRAM FOR REFINING AND IMPROVING THE FIRST AMENDMENT

Statement by the President

THE PRESIDENT: Good morning. Please be seated. As Americans, we cherish many of the laws on which our infinitely superior nation depends to keep it from descending into anarchy and liberalism. Our founding fathers demonstrated incredible smartitude when inventing these basic rules, which they wrote out longhand on parchment in the girlish, loopy script which defined their fruity era when men wore wigs, pantyhose and more silk than a geisha. These suggestions are often called our Constitution. Later, they would add some extra stuff as an afterthought, called "amendments." Sadly, with the exception of the Second one, which states explicitly that each of us is entitled to possess high-powered laser-guided personal sniper cannons capable of taking out worthless pedestrians all across Maryland and Virginia, most of these Amendments were as poorly written as some of the newer Batman comics.

Of all of the Amendments to the Constitution though, none is so flawed and schizophrenic as the First. It starts out promisingly enough, stating "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." This part means that Jesus Christ is our government-sanctioned Lord and Savior, and that we must lavishly fund faith-based Christian charities and parochial schools with tax dollars harvested from Godless Arabiacs, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and other atheists. Trouble is, the First Amendment doesn't quit while it's ahead, but goes on to ban laws "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble." Clearly, the founding fathers were men who not only knew nothing of the realities of war, but had also never spent a few annoying hours surrounded by liberal chatterboxes and anal Congressmen who are always carping about "facts."

And that's why today, at the breathless urging of Attorney General Ashcroft, I am pleased to announce my unconditional and enthusiastic endorsement of the Green Ribbon "Responsibility in Free Speech" Campaign. This fine program, originally conceived and championed by the Godly publishers of such patriotic masterpieces as "I Can See Myself in His Eyeballs" and the Purple Leather-Look™ NIV Adventure Bible, represents an important first step in getting Americans to realize that whoever said "talk is cheap" had never been given a lethal injection after being hauled before a secret treason-tribunal for uttering unwanted criticism of foreign policy.

The Green Ribbon Campaign rightly tells us that the second half of the First Amendment is all well and good – so long as people are "responsible" and mind their – and their neighbors' – tongues. There is an old saying in Texas – I'm sure that it is even a saying here in the predominantly Negro DC area – that "If you don't got something nice to say... well... uh... if you don't got something nice to say... uh... well... you can't get fooled again!" For just as Americans understand full well that it is "responsible" to incarcerate anyone who would shout "fire" in a burning movie theatre, so too must we protect the citizenry from the utter chaos which would result from any public questioning of my administration's divine wisdom during this time of war.

I want to thank the good people of this country in advance for promptly embracing this program with a glassy-eyed zealousness befitting its infinite brilliance. Now, granted, this here green is not such a fabulous shade. I would have preferred that real bright Christmas green – or, better yet, that cool color on American greenbacks. But the damned liberals, who never seem to run out of diseases to cry about, have taken all the best ribbon colors already. Anyway, I appreciate how every last one of you will be wearing green ribbons, tying green ribbons on your trees, weaving green ribbons through your hair, stuffing green ribbons in the mouths of loose-lipped liberals, and displaying green ribbons on your interweb home pages. Together, we can and will win the war against cowardly freedom-hating evil-doers through determined and surgical alterations to the Bill of Rights.

Thank you all - and God Bless America.



To: E who wrote (2394)10/9/2002 1:47:58 AM
From: Lazarus_Long  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 7689
 
That's a long article, yes. Much too much for one response.

Let me ask YOU a question: When Clinton put US troops into the Balkans, did you oppose it? If not, why not? You may argue that the UN sanctioned that. BUT the US was the driving force being that sanction. Clinton wanted it and got it. Just like Bush is pushing to get UN sanction for an attack on Iraq.

And the Balkans have long been the definition of a rat's hole and a headache. So, if it was OK for the US to intervene in the Balkans, with all the problems they can cause, why not the ME?

These are some of the points in there I have a problem with:
But it is much harder to focus down to the scale of caves, forests and villages where the rules of guerilla warfare control. That, plus the constant ambiguity of doing battle in a place where most people are not the enemy, is the core problem in Afghanistan.
Uh, I would think Afghanistan would be cited as showing the US military CAN fight in such places. The Taliban no longer rules there.

The Gulf War
was said to be a slam-dunk, and battlefield casualties numbered less than 800, but in a Veterans
Administration report of May 2002 Gulf War casualties were reported to include 8306 veterans dead and
159,705 veterans injured or ill. When personnel still on active duty are included, the VA indicated in the
May 2002 report that a total of 262,586 individuals are "disabled veterans" due to duty in the Gulf and that
10,617 veterans have died of combat related injuries or illnesses since the initiation of the Gulf War. That
represents a casualty rate of more than 30% for combat related duties between 1990 and 1991.

Those numbers are absurd. Thirty percent casualties is a slaughter. The Gulf War was not a slaughter. Not for US troops, anyway. The books are being cooked here. This is hardly an art limited to corporations. Look at SS and the whole federal budget.

If the US uses depleted uranium shells as lavishly as it did during the Gulf War, casualties from radiation alone will be numerous.
Yeah. Enemy casualties. Sorry, but those don't count once you're at war.

He makes a good point about legitimizing the use of force to prevent another country from presenting a threat. That can be stretched to cover any thing.

The use of the term "weapons of mass destruction" is intended to spread the alarm and fear attached to nukes to chemical and biological weapons. A good artillery barrage can kill more than a chemical attack. Biological has more potential, but still in general is not as deadly as nukes.

And there is no proof that Saddam has nukes.

Even if he does, he needs delivery systems. He has nothing that can reach the US or most of Europe. He could still use a leaky freighter to destroy a US city. But he's best make sure he doesn't get caught. We can reach him in minutes from here.

The Administration has also charged that Iraq is connected to al Qaeda. As far as I know, they have never proven that charge.

I'd prefer that the US not attack Iraq without more proof of nukes or support of al Qaeda. And if that is satisfied, my 2nd preference would be met: more international backing.