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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: LindyBill who wrote (50729)10/10/2002 7:54:36 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 281500
 
2 Critics of Bush Iraq Policy Say They'll Back Resolution

THE DEBATE
By DAVID FIRESTONE
The New York Times

nytimes.com

WASHINGTON, Oct. 9 — As Congress pushed toward a vote on a resolution authorizing military action in Iraq, two of the Senate's most outspoken critics of the Bush administration's Iraq policy — both prominent Vietnam War veterans — announced for the first time today their support for allowing the use of force.


In back-to-back speeches, the senators, John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, and Chuck Hagel, Republican of Nebraska, said they had come to their decisions after the administration agreed to pursue diplomatic solutions and work with the United Nations to forestall a possible invasion.

"I will vote yes," said Mr. Kerry, a possible presidential candidate in 2004, "because on the question of how best to hold Saddam Hussein accountable, the administration, including the president, recognizes that war must be our last option to address this threat, not the first, and that we should be acting in concert with allies around the globe to make the world's case against Saddam Hussein."

Mr. Hagel said the administration should not interpret his support or that of others as an endorsement of the use of pre-emptive force to press ideological disagreements.

"Because the stakes are so high, America must be careful with her rhetoric and mindful of how others perceive her intentions," Mr. Hagel said. "Actions in Iraq must come in the context of an American-led, multilateral approach to disarmament, not as the first case for a new American doctrine involving the pre-emptive use of force."

Also today, Harry Reid of Nevada, the second-ranking Democrat in the Senate, announced his support for the White House resolution.

Despite the latest Democratic support, opponents of the White House resolution fought to keep the Senate from casting a vote this week. In the first dramatic moment of a thus-far lackluster debate, several Democratic senators joined Robert C. Byrd, Democrat of West Virginia, in protesting what they said was a heedless rush toward bloodshed.

Citing the precedent of past debates and a host of unanswered questions from the administration, the Democrats — including Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, Barbara Boxer of California and Paul S. Sarbanes of Maryland — briefly prevented supporters of military action from speaking. They also demanded more debate on the nature of an invasion, its possible human and financial tolls and its aftermath.

Mr. Byrd, a master of Senate rules, had planned to use a series of devices to delay a vote on the resolution until next week. But Senator Tom Daschle of South Dakota, the majority leader, said that the leadership would use its own parliamentary methods to hold the principal vote on a use-of-force resolution before the Senate left this week.

Depending on Mr. Byrd's persistence, and the degree of support he receives from colleagues, the vote could come as early as Thursday night or as late as Sunday.

As each side made its case in the House and Senate, the administration's supporters in Congress worked to minimize an assessment released by the Central Intelligence Agency on Tuesday that said a biological or chemical attack by Iraq on America was not imminent, but could be triggered by an invasion led by the United States.

Senator John W. Warner, Republican of Virginia and the leading supporter of the resolution in the Senate, placed into the record a statement from the director of central intelligence, George J. Tenet, stating that the agency's assessment and the president's position were not inconsistent.

The C.I.A.'s analysis was raised by several opponents of military action, who said it justified their argument that the White House was rushing into war without exhausting other positions.

"This appears to suggest that an attack on Iraq could trigger the very thing that our president has said he is trying to prevent, the use of chemical or biological weapons by Saddam," said Representative Donald M. Payne, Democrat of New Jersey and a leader of the effort to defeat the war resolution. "In view of this report, the policy of a pre-emptive strike is troublesome. Haste in attacking Iraq would place untold numbers of people in harm's way."

Senator Lincoln D. Chafee, Republican of Rhode Island, also cited the C.I.A. report to explain why he would vote for an amendment that would limit action to a joint United Nations force, but he did not say whether he would become the sole Republican to vote against the president's resolution if the amendment fails.

The House was still on target to vote on the resolution on Thursday. In the Senate, leaders made a tiny change in the resolution's wording; under the arcane parliamentary rules of the Senate, this enabled them to reduce the number of hours that Mr. Byrd could tie up the Senate floor in opposition.

After a large huddle on the floor between Democratic and Republican leaders, Mr. Daschle said he hoped a vote could come on Friday, once the Senate, if events proceed as expected, votes to cut off Mr. Byrd's filibuster. Still, the debate is likely to go through Thursday night.

The Senate also began beating back amendments that would variously strengthen or narrow the president's military authority.

In its first vote on an Iraq-related issue, the Senate voted 88 to 10 against an amendment proposed by Senator Bob Graham, Democrat of Florida, that would extend the president's military authority to attack terrorist groups around the world, including Hezbollah and Hamas.

Beyond the parliamentary maneuvering, Vietnam War veterans dominated the day's debate in both chambers, rising to make passionate and deeply personal arguments both for and against invasion.

Representative Randy Cunningham of California, who was a decorated Navy pilot in Vietnam, lost his composure while speaking of the anguish of war and wept in his floor speech. Still, he urged his colleagues to give President Bush the authority he seeks.



To: LindyBill who wrote (50729)10/10/2002 10:51:23 AM
From: JohnM  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 281500
 
I read the piece in the "New Yorker" by Nicholas Lemann, called "Without a Doubt, How the White House changed Condoleezza Rice," and found it extraordinary good. I had wondered how she came "out of nowhere", and now understand her relationship with 43. Unfortunately, it is not available online.

Yep, I agree. I tried to post it but could not find it online. Hopefully, Jochen can work his magic to find it. However, I just realized. We haven't seen Jochen around for a while.

She comes from an upperclass Atlanta, Georgia, BG, and made her way to the top in Academia,(Provost of Stanford), in spite of Degrees from minor schools. She parlayed being "Mentored" by Snowcroft and Shultz into a middle level position with 41, and then became very close to 43.

Just a bit of a correction to that brief bio you put up. She comes from Birmingham, Alabama, not Georgia; was not upperclass since that was not possible for African Americans in Birmingham in the 60s. Rather, according to Leeman, her family was two tiers from the top of African American society. One very rich family occupied the top tier; a second tier included Colin Powell's wife's family, two members of which--her father and uncle--were principles of the black schools in town. The next tier down were the Rice's. C's father worked for Alma Powell's father.

But who knows what might have happened to her had her family not moved to Denver.

I was most interested in Leeman's argument that her great skill is presentation. He goes back to her young life as a budding musical performer to note that she, every early on, learned performing skills.

She is, in his telling of the story, obviously very bright and quite driven, as well. But in my experience, if you look among the set of bright ones and driven ones, it's the ones who know how to perform, who know how to find the best mentors, those are the ones who grab a bit more power. She's obviously got all three.

The speculation about the 04 VP spot was terrific. Cheney against Rice. Great gossip material.



To: LindyBill who wrote (50729)10/10/2002 12:43:39 PM
From: tekboy  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 281500
 
I wasn't as impressed as you and John with the Rice profile. I mean, it's long and detailed and dependable, sure, but I thought it had two key problems.

The first is that it didn't really have anything to say about what substantive role she plays in crafting the administration's foreign policy, largely because she won't say what she tells Dubya and there's no real gossip out there about it. So who knows just what influence, if any, she is actually having, and for what? Can you really tell me, on the basis of that article, how American foreign policy is different thanks to Condi Rice's being NSA rather than somebody else?

Second, the one thing the article does bring out is her apparently radical shift, once in office, from something resembling a "realist" position to something resembling a "neocon" one. This would seem to be evidence in the opposite direction--against her having much independent influence, and in favor of her just being a mirror of her boss and the powerful people around her (Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.).

Many of us in the field expected her to play a different role in the admin, essentially as something of an ally of Powell. It would seem that she has not, in fact, done that (I say "seem" because we just don't know what the internal deliberations are). There has been much speculation, accordingly, as to why. Four kinds of answers have been suggested. The first is that she was always harder line and more conservative than some of us thought. The second is that she's extremely ambitious, understands the balance of power inside the administration, and maneuvers carefully to make sure she's on the winning side, whatever that is. The third is that she offers Powell-like advice in private, but we never hear it. And the fourth is that she did indeed have some kind of epiphany after 9/11 that changed her view of the world.

I would have liked the piece to spend a little less time on what she was wearing in her early childhood piano performances and a little more on pushing the question of just what impact she has had in the administration and why--even though those are obviously topics that are very hard to get at.

tb@sniffsniff.com



To: LindyBill who wrote (50729)10/11/2002 5:14:05 AM
From: D. Long  Respond to of 281500
 
She has no life outside of her job, and spends most of her spare time with Bush and his wife. Her loyalty and "closed mouth" approach is exceptional. If something happened to prevent Cheney from staying on the ticket, Leeman even suggests that Bush would want her as VP for his second term. That, of course, would make her a front runner in '08.

She's an interesting character. Frankly I think Cheney should move aside in 04 and let Dubya put her on the ticket. I think it would great. It would be amazing to have Condaleeza Rice on the Republican Presidential ticket in 08.

Derek