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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Win Smith who wrote (53455)10/20/2002 3:57:44 PM
From: Karen Lawrence  Respond to of 281500
 
"On the contrary, the Iraqi people have warmly welcomed me. Many of them want to share a bit of their lives with me. Almost all of them have the same message: "Please tell the American people that we like them. Please tell the American people that we only disagree with their government. And tell the American people that above all, we want peace." From Seth's ongoing journal as he reports from Iraq. You can send questions to him:
channelonenews.com
Tuesday, October 15, 2002 -- Baghdad, Iraq

Covering a story like this one can be difficult. In the first place, you need the local government to invite you to visit a country like Iraq... but then, as their guest, you are obliged to see and do what they want you to do. We often dub these experiences the "dog and pony show," where you're ushered in and out of photo opportunities, all the while really only seeing one side of the story. But some of the deepest bits of real life in Iraq are impossible to miss.

Everywhere you look there are pictures of Saddam Hussein. And everyone is talking about him. The people here are devoted to their leader -- even referring to Hussein as their "father". Most of what I've heard since I arrived here is sentiments such as, "Saddam is Iraq, Iraq is Saddam." But as I spend more time inside the country and feeling it out, I'm able to catch little random tidbits that stray from the party line.

Anyone seen as outwardly opposing the regime here could be in serious trouble, so for the safety of those that have shared little moments with me, I will refrain from giving too many details. I've found that these exchanges happen in unpredictable off moments when the camera has stopped rolling or when someone's defenses are down. In essence, it's important to take note that not all of Iraq thinks of Saddam as family.

So far, on-camera I've not been able to get anyone to admit that Saddam Hussein has ever done anything short of angelic. In some cases people have just refused to answer my questions. But after one interview, I had a person tell me that my questions made them uneasy and asked me if I knew that they couldn't answer some of them.

When I asked another person at an off time about his love for Saddam, the man said that he believed that Hussein had made life better for him, but that perhaps some Iraqis like him "too much".

Another moment came tonight when someone asked me if I was here to cover the "democratic elections." I answered, "Well, more or less." He said that in Iraq there is no real democracy because there were no choices to be made. Saddam Hussein is the only candidate allowed on the ballot! When I asked him whether he voted, he told me that yes, he did, because he didn't want to have any "troubles."

Despite these mysterious communications, I've never been in a foreign land where I have felt so welcome. A number of Americans have asked if the Iraqi people resent me because I'm American. On the contrary, the Iraqi people have warmly welcomed me. Many of them want to share a bit of their lives with me. Almost all of them have the same message: "Please tell the American people that we like them. Please tell the American people that we only disagree with their government. And tell the American people that above all, we want peace."


Journal #6: The people of Iraq have only wonderful things to say about their leader -- at least while the camera's rolling

Journal #5: Freedom of the press isn't exactly a priority in Iraq, but college students in Baghdad were quick to open up.

Journal #4: Upon first impression, Seth finds the people of Iraq peaceful and welcoming.

Journal #3: Seth's journey continues at the Iraqi embassy in Jordan. Will they grant him access to a country on the brink of war?

Journal #2: From airport to airport, headed halfway around the globe, Seth's entering into a whole new world.

Journal #1: Seth's journey toward Iraq is a long one - but the anticipation of whats to come keeps him on his toes




Images of Iraq: New Pics Just Added! Travelling on assignment to foreign lands can be exciting -- but far from glamorous

Interactive Map: Trace Seth's long, tiresome trip into Baghdad




You sent in questions for Seth about what life is like in Iraq. Now he's answering them -- from Iraq!



To: Win Smith who wrote (53455)10/20/2002 4:02:25 PM
From: Karen Lawrence  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Exactly, Win, over time, the USSR collapsed from within and the only thing Reagan could claim was it happened during the time he was president but not because of his presidency:

But the fact is, what he recommended was that we keep pressure on the Soviet Union so that they could not, by expansion, seem to justify an irrational system and thereby force them to confront the contradictions of that system. And that's exactly what happened. He predicted that if they were forced to confront the contradictions, the system would, in effect, collapse or moderate itself of its own accord. This happened. Now I think it happened a couple of decades after he had hoped it would, but that doesn't really matter. The time scales in this sort of thing are not important. The fact is, containment was our policy. It was successfully carried out, even when we were sometimes using methods that Kennan didn't approve of subsequently. The Soviet Union did collapse eventually, and certainly communist control of the Soviet Union collapsed as a result of having to confront these inner inconsistencies



To: Win Smith who wrote (53455)10/20/2002 6:44:37 PM
From: JohnM  Respond to of 281500
 
Thanks for gathering all that Matlock material, Win. I was aware of the name but not of the writing. An interesting guy, exactly. I'll now know to look out for his work.



To: Win Smith who wrote (53455)10/20/2002 6:57:17 PM
From: LindyBill  Respond to of 281500
 
Thanks very much, Win, for finding all of those URLs on Matlock. I have just spent about an hour reading the Book Reviews and the interview with him about the end of the Cold War.

First, the Reviews. Just excellent. I read all of the NYT ones, and will work on the "New York Review" ones this evening. I agreed with his closing comment on Hitchens attacks on Kissinger.

>>> Hitchens sees his accusations as a blow to the ''sovereign immunity'' principle traditionally protecting senior government officials from tribunals outside their own countries. His intemperate diatribe may, however, have the opposite effect. Many will reason that if this is the sort of thing that could be brought before an international criminal court, the world will be better off without one.<<<<<

The one on Shawcross was also excellent. I agree with his criticism of Shawcross's view of our involvement in Cambodia.

>>>> To many observers, this reviewer included, Shawcross's accusation seemed not merely excessive but perversely misdirected. Whatever mistakes the Nixon administration might have made in Southeast Asia, the charge that the United States government was responsible, even indirectly, for the murderous behavior of the Khmer Rouge seemed patently unreasonable. In blaming the United States, Shawcross implicitly lifted much of the guilt from those who were directly responsible for one of the most gruesome atrocities in human history: the Khmer Rouge leaders and their mentors and supporters in Mao Zedong's China.<<<<<<

His view on the necessity of understanding the POV of your opponent is well put.

>>>>>The Carter Administration misunderstood the Soviet mind-set and failed to deter the invasion of Afghanistan. The Reagan Administration misunderstood the Libyan leader Muammar el-Qaddafi's thinking and avoided direct communication, with the result that limited military actions provoked rather than deterred terrorist acts.

Though the jury has not yet convened, historians may judge that President Clinton's bombing of Yugoslavia exacerbated rather than prevented a tragedy in Kosovo. A more accurate understanding of Slobodan Milosevic's point of view -- along with diplomatic efforts to obtain United Nations authority for any action taken, and a recognition that some problems cannot be solved by military means -- might well have produced a more successful and less controversial strategy<<<<

His review of "Russia Under Western Eyes" has some excellent lines:

>>>>> As an integral part of his analysis, Malia offers a devastating critique of Marxist Socialism and its various offshoots, and also of such fads as social science theories of ''modernization'' and ''post-modern'' deconstructivism. His unsparing assessment of the fallacies of Socialist ideology and other knee-jerk reactions to ''bourgeois'' society and market democracy will doubtless infuriate those whose thinking is still infected by the debris of discredited faiths.<<<<<<<

Because of his review, I have reserved Cris Patten's Book, "East and West." Matlock sums up China this way:

>>>>> He is uncomfortable with the choice to go with what he terms ''Carter or Kissinger, with high-minded waffle or cynical common sense.''

Such a choice does, indeed, create an awkward dilemma, but Patten's advice to treat China as we would any other country, while sound as a general principle, does little to resolve it. The fact is that the Chinese leaders will not respect the rights of their own people until they see that it is in their interest to do so. We have no means of forcing them to do what they should, and public lectures are more likely to engender acts of defiance than willing compliance.<<<<<

But the "Jack Matlock Interview: Conversations with History; Institute of International Studies, UC Berkeley" is priceless. There is some "inside info" in it that would have not have made it to a book, I think. We have a long term Foreign Service Officer, who voted for Carter, and was brought in by the Reagan Admin to the NSC to advise them on Russia. He did so well that he was made Ambassador. Here are some telling excerpts.

>>>>> you served as Special Assistant to President Reagan from '83 to '86. Was the Reagan policy consistent with the ideas laid down by George Kennan in the containment article?

Yes, I think they were totally consistent, because the job I was given when I was brought on the National Security Council staff in the spring of 1983 was to develop a negotiating strategy for the Soviet Union that, if it wouldn't end the Cold War, at least would end the arms race. We couldn't end the Cold War in and of ourselves. We could end the arms race, and we hoped to end the Cold War. And that was in Reagan's mind, I think, from the very beginning. The people who say that he changed course midway, I think didn't understand him and didn't really pay attention to the way he had formulated his policies. He had very harsh things to say about the Soviet Union, all of which in my opinion were true, and they may have seemed un-diplomatic. But they had a purpose. One was to de-legitimize the system. The second was that he felt he had to build up -- in poker terms you might say he wanted to have more chips on the table -- to negotiate effectively, thus his arms buildup. But at the same time he always intended to negotiate, and to negotiate the best deals he could. After two years of the defense buildup, he decided it was time to negotiate, and I was brought in as a specialist to tell him how to do it.<<<<

>>>>> Would you make the argument that although Reagan appeared to be extreme in his rhetoric, he was building a political base to get the treaties approved once there were successful negotiations?

Well this was an effect. I'm not sure how conscious it was.....I think that he was looking for guidance along those lines. What was clear to us trying to develop it was that if we developed a successful strategy, and he signed an agreement, the Senate was going to ratify it. He could not be outflanked from the right, and that was a tremendous strength. Now, if Carter had been president at that time we couldn't have done that...... He was always very frank about his opinions and I think what he said he really believed in. There wasn't anything Machiavellian behind it. But it did have the effect that you suggested.<<<<

>>>>On your watch, when you became ambassador and served as ambassador from '87 to '91, three major things happened. The Cold War ended. Communism was no longer the operative philosophy in Russia. And then the Soviet Union broke apart and collapsed. Was it inevitable that all three of those things happened?

I don't think so. They were interconnected, but I think you're quite right in separating the three. A lot of people don't. They look at the end of the Cold War and the end of the Soviet Union as somehow synonymous -- they're not. Actually, the U.S. attitude differed greatly in regard to those three events, and our contribution to them differed greatly. We wanted to end the Cold War, and we set terms that were not contrary to Soviet interests if the Soviet Union was willing to live in peace with its neighbors and not threaten them. We were careful about that. A lot of people didn't understand that, I think, when they analyzed our proposals, but our proposals were not contrary to the true national interests of the Soviet Union. But nevertheless, we did write sort of the score for the end of the Cold War. And it's to Gorbachev's credit that he saw that it was in their interest to engage us and come to these agreements. So we definitely aimed to, and helped, end the Cold War.<<<<<

So, thanks again, Win. for digging this info out. It is not only very interesting, it adds to my reading list.



To: Win Smith who wrote (53455)8/4/2004 4:00:46 PM
From: Win Smith  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
'Reagan and Gorbachev': Shutting the Cold War Down nytimes.com

[ Review of REAGAN AND GORBACHEV : How the Cold War Ended.
By Jack F. Matlock Jr. Matlock has shown up here a time or two, for further references see the "who wrote" msg, #reply-18135633 . This is apparently another bit of conventional reality analysis, somewhat contrary to current conservative dogma, but nevermind. ]

By STROBE TALBOTT

RONALD REAGAN was widely eulogized for having won the cold war, liberated Eastern Europe and pulled the plug on the Soviet Union. Margaret Thatcher, Joe Lieberman, John McCain, Charles Krauthammer and other notables offered variations of The Economist's cover headline: ''The Man Who Beat Communism.''

Actually, Jack F. Matlock Jr. writes in ''Reagan and Gorbachev,'' it was ''not so simple.'' He should know. A veteran foreign service officer and respected expert on the Soviet Union, he reached the pinnacle of his career under Reagan, serving first as the White House's senior coordinator of policy toward the Soviet Union, then as ambassador to Moscow. In both the title of his memoir and the story it tells, he gives co-star billing to Mikhail Gorbachev.

Reagan himself went even farther. Asked at a press conference in Moscow in 1988, his last year in office, about the role he played in the great drama of the late 20th century, he described himself essentially as a supporting actor. ''Mr. Gorbachev,'' he said, ''deserves most of the credit, as the leader of this country.''

This quotation was much cited at the time as an example of Reagan's graciousness, tact and self-deprecation. But Matlock's book bears out his former boss's judgment. The 40th president of the United States emerges here not as a geopolitical visionary who jettisoned the supposedly accommodationist policies of containment and detente, but as an archpragmatist and operational optimist who adjusted his own attitudes and conduct in order to encourage a new kind of Kremlin leader.

During his first term, Reagan denounced the pre-Gorbachev Soviet Union as an ''evil empire.'' The name-calling riled many Soviets (and more than a few Sovietologists) but did little diplomatic harm, since relations between Washington and Moscow were already in a rut. The Kremlin had become a geriatric ward, with Red Square doubling as the world's largest funeral parlor.

Then, in 1985, soon after Reagan's second inauguration, the vigorous, 54-year-old Gorbachev ascended to the leadership. He wanted to demilitarize Soviet foreign policy so that he could divert resources to the Augean task of fixing a broken economy. Initially, he expected no help from Reagan, whom he regarded as ''not simply a conservative, but a political 'dinosaur.' ''

For his part, Reagan assumed the new general secretary of the Communist Party would be ''totally dedicated to traditional Soviet goals.'' Nonetheless, he was prepared to test Prime Minister Thatcher's first impression: ''I like Mr. Gorbachev; we can do business together.''

Getting back into the business of diplomacy with the principal adversary of the United States appealed to Reagan, just as it had to six previous occupants of the Oval Office. Dwight D. Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy had tried to make the most of Nikita S. Khrushchev's slogan of ''peaceful coexistence''; Lyndon B. Johnson jump-started arms control talks with Aleksei N. Kosygin; Richard Nixon, Gerald R. Ford and Jimmy Carter signed strategic-arms limitation agreements with Leonid I. Brezhnev. But those Soviet leaders were committed, above all, to preserving the status quo. Sooner or later, each caused a setback or a showdown with the United States through some act of barbarity or recklessness: the crushing of the Hungarian uprising in 1956, the Cuban missile crisis in 1962, the invasions of Czechoslovakia in 1968 and Afghanistan in 1979, the destruction of a South Korean airliner that had wandered off course in 1983. Breakthroughs in United States-Soviet relations were inherently subject to breakdowns.

Gorbachev altered that dynamic. He was determined to take the Soviet Union in a radically different direction -- away from the Big Lie (through his policy of glasnost), away from a command economy (through perestroika) and away from zero-sum competition with the West.

Reagan came quickly to recognize that Gorbachev's goals, far from being traditional, were downright revolutionary. He also saw that the transformation Gorbachev had in mind for his country would, if it came about, serve American interests.

As a result, without much fuss and without many of his supporters noticing, Reagan underwent a transformation of his own. The fire-breathing cold warrior set about trying, through intense, sustained personal engagement, to convince Gorbachev that the United States would not make him sorry for the course he had chosen.

Matlock describes in telling detail how Reagan rehearsed for his first meeting with Gorbachev, which took place in Geneva in November 1985. Reagan assigned the role of the Soviet leader to Matlock who, for maximum authenticity, played his part in Russian, mimicking Gorbachev's confident, loquacious style. Matlock also sent Reagan a series of ''spoof memos'' that were ''interlaced with jokes and anecdotes,'' based on an educated guess at what Gorbachev's own advisers were telling him in preparation for the encounter.

Shortly before setting off for Geneva, Reagan dictated a long memo of his own, laying out his assessment of the man he was about to meet.The Reagan game plan was to look for areas of common interest, be candid about points of contention and support Gorbachev's reforms while (in Matlock's paraphrase) ''avoiding any demand for 'regime change.' '' He cautioned the members of his administration not to rub Gorbachev's nose in any concessions he might make. Above all, Reagan wanted to establish a relationship with his Soviet counterpart that would make it easier to manage conflicts lest they escalate to thermonuclear war -- an imperative for every American president since Eisenhower.

Matlock puts the best light he can on Reagan's dream of a Star Wars anti-missile system, but he stops short of perpetuating the claim, now an article of faith among many conservatives, that the prospect of an impregnable shield over the United States and an arms race in space caused the Soviets to throw in the towel. Instead, Matlock focuses on Reagan's attempt to convince Gorbachev that American defense policy posed no threat to legitimate Soviet interests and should therefore not prevent the two leaders from establishing a high degree of mutual trust.

That word figured in Reagan's mantra, ''trust but verify.'' It set Gorbachev's teeth on edge. However, Reagan intended the motto not just as a caveat about dealing with the Soviets but also as a subtle admonition to his relentlessly hard-line and mistrustful secretary of defense, Caspar W. Weinberger. According to Matlock, Weinberger was ''utterly convinced that there was no potential benefit in negotiating anything with the Soviet leaders and that most negotiations were dangerous traps.'' The rivalry that Matlock describes between Weinberger and Secretary of State George P. Shultz bears an eerie similarity to what we know of the one between Colin L. Powell and Donald H. Rumsfeld. Shultz grew so exasperated with Weinberger's militancy and obstructionism that he contemplated resigning. Reagan wrote in his diary, ''I can't let this happen. Actually, George is carrying out my policy.''

That policy, as Matlock summarizes it, ''was consistent throughout.'' Reagan ''wanted to reduce the threat of war, to convince the Soviet leaders that cooperation could serve the Soviet peoples better than confrontation and to encourage openness and democracy in the Soviet Union.''

Presidential attachment to those precepts neither began nor ended with Ronald Reagan. It was Jimmy Carter who first put human rights prominently on the agenda of American-Soviet relations. George H. W. Bush skillfully served as a kind of air traffic controller in 1991, when the increasingly beleaguered Gorbachev brought the Soviet Union in for a relatively soft landing on the ash heap of history -- a major contribution to the end of the cold war that Matlock dismisses in a footnote as ''cleanup'' diplomacy.

While Matlock could have been more charitable to Reagan's predecessors and to his immediate successor, his account of Reagan's achievement as the nation's diplomat in chief is a public service as well as a contribution to the historical record. It is simultaneously admiring, authoritative and conscientious. It is also corrective, since it debunks much of the hype and spin with which we were blitzed earlier this summer. The truth is a better tribute to Reagan than the myth.

Strobe Talbott is the president of the Brookings Institution. His latest book, ''Engaging India: Diplomacy, Democracy and the Bomb,'' will be published in September.