in case you profoundly blew it, I apologize for tramping on your better sentiments.
Based on your weak apology, I'll respond to you just this once, simply to point out the absurdity of your diatribe and the scurrilous nature of your calumny.
You have become a vicious occupying regime, losing its humanity, and your connection to our culture - you've become a victimizer, an indefensible evil.
"...losing its humanity" = sub human, non human, degraded [SFD: no, I'm using the term exactly as it has been used by commentators - losing humanity in the same way that ANY invading occupying army and country loses its *humanity* - in this case Israel, but before that any number of countries - IS IT ANTISEMITIC when exactly the same description is applied to Israel, or is it OK to say, as has been said countless times about countless countries/armies, but not OK to say it about Israel? RUBBISH!]
"...losing...your connection to our culture" = nekulturny, uncivilized, ignorant [SFD: no - meaning we feel no kinship with a culture in which a brutal occupation is possible, no matter WHICH country it may be - is that ANTISEMITIC? For example, Serbia lost its connection with liberal European culture when they became a brutal occupying force in Kosovo - was it ANTISEMITIC to say so, or does that term only apply to Israel? RUBBISH!]
"a victimizer" = tyrant, bully, torturer [SFD: yes, exactly. That is my opinion, and the opinion of countless others, including Jews, and including Israelis. That opinion might be RIGHT, or it might be WRONG, but is it ANTISEMITIC? Is it **ANTISEMITIC** to call Israel "a victimizer"???? If we call Serbia (or any other country) a victimizer, is that ANTISEMITIC or does that only apply to criticizm of Israel? RUBBISH!]
"an indefensible evil" = genociders, baby eaters [SFD: huh? Come again? Any *regime*, including the THE WHOLE COLONIAL SYSTEM of countries like Britain, France, Spain, Portugal etc., can become an indefensible evil, which does not imply "baby eaters" - that's your demagoguery and your words, not mine; Israel has become a colonial power - is it OK to say the colonial system and *regime* has become an indefensible evil when it comes to other countries, but suddenly becomes *ANTISEMITIC* when applied to Israeli colonialism? RUBBISH!]
Reads like antisemitism, sounds like antisemitism. [Yep, the only thing you've proven is just how clearly absurd your slander is, and just how exactly it fits with the dirty trick of calling any criticism of Israel automatically anti-semitic, a tactic thoroughly discredited in civilized discourse]
The country which we all felt cultural kinship and affinity for, has become just another nasty, devious, vicious, bloodthristy ME regime.
"...nasty, devious, vicious, bloodthirsty ME regime." Just like Saddam, hey? You've made an absurd and false statement. To use an apposite word, a calumnious statement, a lie, an antisemitic statement.
The absurdity of the above is so staggering, it lacks SIMPLE LOGIC - when I said "just another" meaning like countless other "nasty vicious bloodthirsty regimes in the ME", does that mean ALL those regimes now have been attacked with an ANTISEMITIC statement? LOL! Hey, Saudis would be surprised to hear that anti-semitic statements are made about them, LOL! Or is it ANTISEMITIC ONLY when exactly the same terms are applied to Israel?
You CAN have an OPINION about my opinion that it is: "absurd and false", you can even call it "a lie", "a calumny" etc. but does that therefore make it ANTISEMITIC??? So, as you put it, that opinion would apply to Saddam, but if applied to Israel, it becomes ANTISEMITIC? Not "wrong", "incorrect", "even lie", "unjust, calumny", but ANTISEMITIC? LOL! RUBBISH! Yet again, we see that "yep, the only thing you've proven is just how clearly absurd your slander is, and just how exactly it fits with the dirty trick of calling any criticism of Israel automatically anti-semitic, a tactic thoroughly discredited in civilized discourse".
frankw1900 wrote :More in sorrow than in anger you tell us those jews are a terrible disappointment and just NFG, after all. Just typical thieves:
[SFD wrote]: This is the final legacy of the poison of occupation and ill-gotten goods.
Nope. I said exactly what I said - not "jews are thieves" anymore than "Brits are thieves" because they had colonies, or "French are thieves" because they did. Nor "jews are thieves" because Israel is a colonial occupational regime. Occupation can poison, and so can ill-gotten goods - British, French, or Israeli. Or does the term ANTISEMITIC apply only to the EXACT SAME CRITICISM of Israel? RUBBISH! And another crystal-clear case "yep, the only thing you've proven is just how clearly absurd your slander is, and just how exactly it fits with the dirty trick of calling any criticism of Israel automatically anti-semitic, a tactic thoroughly discredited in civilized discourse."
You neglect to mention the Israelis took that land in a war driving away aggressors and the aggressors gave up claim to it. [SFD: this is a matter of obvious dispute, and you'll get plenty of argument on this - it may be right, or wrong, but NONE of it makes it anti-semitic] This is "ill-gotten" is it? [SFD: yes, in my and many others opinion - it may be right or wrong but THAT does not make the opinion ANTISEMITIC, again, RUBBISH!] Lots of extremely bad, (and some evil), behaviour and stupid policy, but try as I might, I find it impossible to see a whole country and people who are the repository of "indefensible evil" (= genociders, baby eaters [SFD: oh I love that "=" sign - YOUR rubbishy words, I'm supposed to accept. RUBBISH!], but you have. [SFD: you are repeating yourself - I dealt with this above, see under "evil colonial regimes of Britain etc." - again, RUBBISH!]
Above you merely repeated yourself, and I dealt with it again, patiently and "Yep, the only thing you've proven is just how clearly absurd your slander is, and just how exactly it fits with the dirty trick of calling any criticism of Israel automatically anti-semitic, a tactic thoroughly discredited in civilized discourse".
And that's all the "proof" of my alleged anti-semitism you provide.
You then take a fragment of my post and intersperse it with equally obtuse and nonsensical remarks, which there is no point in making detailed rebuttals to - I'll only pick a couple that make the "anti-semitism" scurrilous charge:
You [change from 'Israel', the collective, to 2nd person singular - to what end?] speculated that the reason why young Europeans in Scandinavia turned against Israel is because of anti-Semitism.
OK, what better proof of the kind of rubbish you post can be provided than the fact that you completely misread this BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY DID NOT FOLLOW THE DEBATE!!!! I did not "change from 'Israel', collective, to 2nd person singular" - the 2nd person singular was NEVER ISRAEL, I was addressing Nadine directly, to WHOM THAT POST WAS MADE - I said "YOU" to her, not to Israel - and the reason is because she wrote a post, wherein she speculated that the Scandinavians must have turned from pro-Israel to anti-Israel because of "anti-semitism". So, I said "YOU speculated" - which is exactly correct! So, as can be seen, again, you TOTALLY MISS THE MARK - HOW TYPICAL. Here's the order of posts:
First, my post:
Message 18097450
I just spent a few weeks in August in Europe. I visited Eastern Europe, where sad to say anti-Semitism is alive and well (I had lengthy and unfruitful arguments with garden variety anti-semites there, hate is hard to reform). But what horrified me, was what happened in the rest of Europe, particularly Scandinavia (my background). Europe, and especially Scandinavian countries used to have large reservoirs of affection and support for Israel. I was horrified by the fact that all of that seems to have evaporated, as Israel has gone from legitimacy and feeling of cultural and historical affinity to the image of a brutal oppressor who is creating tremendous problems in the world.
Nadine's response:
siliconinvestor.com
Interesting. And I keep wondering why Europeans sympathise so deeply with people who express their political aspirations by suicide bombing buses. I mean, there was no similar outflow of outrage over the Turk's (much harsher, actually) treatment of the Kurds? The Tibetans don't have much luck either. Just the poor poor Palestinians, whose oppression is considered so awful that it excuses all their behavior, and whose rights are so sacred that Israel's and America's attempts to negotiate a settlement are forgotten dismissively. Don't you think the anti-Semitism you've noticed could have something to do with the case?
And in that context I wrote the statement you lit upon:
You speculated that the reason why young Europeans in Scandinavia turned against Israel is because of anti-Semitism.
And here we have your absurd nonsense:
You [change from 'Israel', the collective, to 2nd person singular - to what end?] speculated that the reason why young Europeans in Scandinavia turned against Israel is because of anti-Semitism.
"To what end?" - you ask? Just how small does the hat have to be to fit on YOUR head? Hey Einstein - I was addressing Nadine - or is "Einstein" "anti-semitic", LOL! If you are not informed and don't know the context, refrain from jumping to conclusions "frank1900".
Another gem:
What a sad statement [Sad?! Not true or false?] - it is so easy to say in order to dismiss the seriousness of those who disagree with you.
I thought it was SAD that someone would see anti-semitism in honest criticizm. That doesn't mean I didn't think it isn't also FALSE - but I made that clear elsewhere and was obvious in the context. I emphasized the fact that it was SAD - and you jump in with complete nonsense that doesn't even apply!
So much for the "anti-semitism" proof from you. The rest of your nonsensical interjections (like [High seriousness]) I won't deal with, as it has nothing to do with the "anti-semitism" charge, and is merely highschool debating tricks and dime-store "irony" rhetoric.
That leaves just the signature to your pathetically inept and self-indicting post:
frank@iaintajewbutiknowthecode.com
Regardless of your ethnic background, the only "code" you seem to know is the area code to the nearest lunatic asylum. So much for your paranoid diatribe.
Since I have taken apart every single one of your inept charges, not much remains, but to sum up where we go from here.
Your "apology" was based on the understanding that "at best" I must be "someone who writes antisemitic stuff" without being a card-carrying Nazi. Just what the worth of your charges is, I showed. Not a word of what I wrote was anti-semitic. As such, your apology doesn't seem to apply, does it. Seems it is not I who "blew it profoundly", rather it is YOU.
Here's some news for you: I will NOT be intimidated by your or anyone else's slanderous charges of anti-semitism. I will NOT allow the debate to be shut down by such vicious personal attacks, and such low tactics discredited everywhere. Criticizm of Israel does not automatically equal anti-semitism, and it is a disgraceful person who resorts to such charges rather than simply constructing counter-arguments. Such a person has no place in the context of civilized discourse.
I have taken the time to respond to you in an extremely detailed way. Clear as it is, I'm sure you'll find another equally obtuse way to say "but I'm right, right, right, you are, are, are wrong/anti-semitic/whatever" followed by paranoid convoluted ramblings. Here's the problem - just as you were obtuse in making those charges, so you will remain obtuse in making new charges.
I have no time or desire to interact with you. One, because it is an utter waste of time, having to defend oneself from slander. Two, because of the generally low quality of arguments you come up with - as I showed with my point by point rebuttal of your absurd charges. Three, I'd rather spend my time on the issues, than tangling with a dufus who cannot abide by civilized rules of discourse. I'm done with you. And now, you are dismissed. |
