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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (63484)	10/23/2002 7:26:08 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 82486

Unfortunately, what you would have me post is simply false. And I won't lie even if you think that would make things better. And really, you wouldn't want me to do that, would you? After all, I am an arteeste, and arteestes have to maintain their artistic integrity, don' t they?

To: E who wrote (63484)	10/23/2002 7:27:30 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

We have ALL at times behaved "badly" depending on how we define that. (IMO Laz just behaved very very badly) No one wants to admit it about themselves though.

To: E who wrote (63484)	10/23/2002 7:39:01 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 82486

There is something you really don't get. When this started I wasn't defending CH's behavior- I merely thought your characterization of it was incorrect. As the conflict escalated, and the behavior of your side became more and more outrageous, it was obvious that whatever he had done, you and yours were infinitely worse. At this point I would have to defend his behavior over your "groups'" behavior, if given that choice. But I don't like your behavior or his. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to act that way (I think even Bill would have to agree with that, since we agreed people have a right to act anyway they want, even if we don't agree with them, as long as they don't break the laws). People will act in ways we don't like. I think the trick is to resist those ways, without becoming worse than the people we are complaining about. You and yours became your enemy, and then went him one or two or ten better. That certainly is the law of the jungle, but I'm not sure it makes any points about civilized behavior, which is where you started in the beginning of all this. You can't see what Laz posted- but he WANTS to be scary. He would LIKE to scare me. That is the problem. You and yours just don't know where to draw the lines. Your tempers get the better of you, and you are willing to go to scorched Earth on SI, in 3d, whatever. Families are free game. Careers and professions are free game. That is a problem for you and yours, and for anyone else who comes into contact with you.

To: E who wrote (63484)	10/23/2002 7:43:22 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Did you notice the quote from Eleanor Roosevelt that I posted a while ago? "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Anyone here who has chosen to let me offend them has done so with their own consent and by their own choice. It's quite simple. Everybody is, IMO, responsible for how they respond to other people here on SI. In the "real" world, dealing with people in "real life" contexts, things are different. But this is an artificial world with most people hiding behind aliases, with people free to choose to particpate or not participate. If people take offense at what one alias says to another alias, that is their choice. They have chosen to be offended. They had a choice how to react, and that was what they chose. Remember Beltane? Some people chose to be offended at our relationship there. IMO, that was too bad, but it was their problem. I felt no need to let them force their problem on me to become my problem. That's what you're asking me to do--to take other peoples' decisions and blame myself for them. I don't. I won't. Their problems are their problems. Whether they choose to be offended, or amused, or choose just to put me on ignore, that's their choice to make -- and their choice to live with. We're all, I believe, adults here. We're all responsible for our own lives. We're all responsible for the choices we make, including the choice we make of how to respond. You want to get offended by something I say? Be my guest. But I make the choice not to let you force your choice onto me. That's letting you control my life. I choose not to let you do that. If it moves into real life, then things change. If I had threatened, or harassed, or bullied on the telephone or by mail or email or in person, any participant here in their real life (as some did to me), that would be different. But here on SI, no.